Eric Lombard: Bartender to Loan Officer, Work-Life Balance & Mortgage Sales | Mortgage Daddies

00:00:00:02 - 00:00:15:15
Craig Snell
Welcome back to Mortgage Daddies. Today we have one of my best friends and, uh, loan officers here at Milestone. He's been with us since 2020? Yeah. 2020, 2020. Uh, towards the end of 2020. Eric Lombard.

00:00:13:04 - 00:00:15:15
Eric Lombard
So— welcome— thank you, guys. Thank you for having me.

00:00:15:16 - 00:00:16:17
Vernon Miles
The man, the myth, the legend.

00:00:16:19 - 00:00:17:17
Eric Lombard
Yeah. About time.

00:00:17:18 - 00:00:19:05
Vernon Miles
Lombardo. Can, we can all thank—

00:00:19:05 - 00:00:20:00
Vernon Miles
about time.

00:00:20:01 - 00:00:28:05
Craig Snell
We can all—

00:00:28:07 - 00:00:33:00
Vernon Miles
I'm Vernon. I run a top mortgage brokerage in Massachusetts with over 20 years of experience.

00:00:33:01 - 00:00:33:16
Craig Snell
I'm Craig.

00:00:33:17 - 00:00:44:20
Craig Snell
I've done $100 million consistently since my second full year in the business, and I'm Massachusetts' top mortgage broker. We're the Mortgage Daddies, with real advice, real stories, and real results. Let's get going.

00:00:44:21 - 00:00:46:18
Craig Snell
We can all thank Ryan Lombard for this.

00:00:46:19 - 00:01:06:00
Eric Lombard
Yes, you can. Yes. I still remember walking in— so I met Craig, uh, my brother Ryan calls me, it's COVID, and uh, he's like, "Hey, you gotta meet this guy, Craig Snell." And I walk in to Not Your Average Joe's, and I have a briefcase. I'll never forget this. I'm thinking it's like a formal interview.

00:01:06:00 - 00:01:27:08
Eric Lombard
And, and of course Craig, s— you know, now I know Craig very well, but at the time he shows up late, and uh, he sits down, and he's like, uh— the key to interviews— oh, yeah. He, he was like 35 minutes late. I'm like— I was 7. Y— yeah. He sits, he sits down. We, uh, we have a beverage, and he looks at the briefcase and he's like, "What's that?"

00:01:27:10 - 00:01:44:21
Eric Lombard
I'm like, "It's my resume." He starts, uh, laughing at me. And he's like, right away he's like, "You don't need, I don't need nothing, but your brother, your brother referred you over to me." He's like, "Go pass the test." So, uh, but it was funny, because back then there was only 8 of us or 9 of us in the whole company, and we're learning all these systems.

00:01:44:21 - 00:02:02:15
Eric Lombard
I don't know anything about anything. I never knew anything about mortgages. And, you know, you're talking about DTI and all these things, and I remember being so lost. So I actually had to leave. I left for like 3 weeks and went home and studied. And I still remember, Craig was my second phone call after I passed the test.

00:02:02:17 - 00:02:22:13
Eric Lombard
I got a 75 on the number. I called my brother Ryan, and I was all emotional, 'cause I can't test. Don't know how to test. I've always been terrible at testing. And I called him, and I'm thinking that Craig's gonna be like, "Oh, man. Congrats." Yeah, well I got an 89. And I'm like— and I'm like, and 6 years later, not much has changed.

00:02:22:14 - 00:02:43:14
Eric Lombard
So, but, uh, but yeah, 6 years now. You've stayed around for 6 years. Everything's about competition. Oh, heck yeah. It's the, it's, I've been with you guys now, I've been with everything of you guys, seen the growth, seen the changes, seen the struggles, seen everything, and it's, it's, uh, it's this, this company and this job has changed my life. That's awesome. I'm very happy to be here.

00:02:43:15 - 00:02:44:11
Eric Lombard
Absolutely.

00:02:43:15 - 00:02:44:11
Vernon Miles
We're happy to have you, brother.

00:02:44:11 - 00:02:45:21
Vernon Miles
Yeah. You bring some heat, some excitement every single day, so.

00:02:45:21 - 00:03:10:02
Eric Lombard
I try to. You know, I, this job is, uh, this job is a stressful job for a lot of people. But when you come from nothing, and in one month you can make what you made— last year— last year, it doesn't, I have a different mindset than a lot of LOs. I always have. Um, but it's, uh, I, I find this job just freeing, if you will.

00:03:10:03 - 00:03:28:10
Eric Lombard
You know, I can, uh, don't get me wrong, I know, I know that you guys and, and other people, "Oh, you could do more, you could do more, you could do more." I finally have balance in my life, which I never had before. So it's eased up my brain and it's eased up my life. I'm s— able to spend more time with family and friends than ever before.

00:03:28:11 - 00:03:29:15
Vernon Miles
And the golf course loves you.

00:03:29:16 - 00:03:45:04
Eric Lombard
Golf course loves me. Um, but not only that, it's just, I've never, I mean, I'm 43 years old now, and I've never had a dollar to my name. And now that I can, like I said, breathe, it's just refreshing— yeah— to be honest with you.

00:03:45:06 - 00:04:09:15
Vernon Miles
It's a great opportunity for a lot of people that have some drive to get into this business— oh, yeah— and change their life. And seeing somebody like you aggravates me sometimes, right? No, no. You just said it, right? Like, 'cause I know y— you could be doing 5 times, but then at the same time, it's refreshing to see people like yourself living their best life, golfing a minimum of 4 or 5 days a week.

00:04:09:17 - 00:04:15:18
Vernon Miles
No. If I was— 100%, for the record, he's g— we'll take a poll in the office and report back.

00:04:15:19 - 00:04:16:17
Eric Lombard
It's just not the case.

00:04:16:18 - 00:04:23:15
Eric Lombard
We do live in New England, for, for our new viewers. So he's only golfed 4 or 5 times a week. I'll give him, I'll give him 3. 3 solid in a tournament. All right. So I might— my, my average is probably more like 2, to be honest. It really is.

00:04:23:16 - 00:04:44:05
Vernon Miles
But it's awesome seeing that, like, somebody's living that life and taking it all in stride, right? Like— yeah— I mean, you're 43 years old. You always say, "I just need to make X." And I'm like, "No, you can double that." And you're like— mm— "But then I won't be able to golf 2 times a week or 3 times a week, or go on vacation."

00:04:44:06 - 00:04:57:19
Vernon Miles
Like, you love vacation. Yeah. You love golf. You spend a lot of time with your family. Yep. It, it's cool to see that other side of it, because, like you said, there's so many people in sales all around that are just like, "Next, next, next," and—

00:04:57:20 - 00:05:17:08
Eric Lombard
Well, I think the beautiful thing about sales is you can always turn it on. Yeah. I, I still haven't found my groove yet. Yeah. Like, I was always structured in a certain way of life, of working 60, 70 hours a week in the restaurant business. Um, always working, you know, I'd get to the restaurant at 9:00 AM, leave at 2:00 AM. You know, you walk out of there with 1,000 bucks and you're like, "Whoa," like a great day, but you don't realize you put 18 hours in.

00:05:17:09 - 00:05:34:16
Eric Lombard
Right? And you're on your feet, and you're running around, you're getting yelled at all day, right? So it's one of those things where I still haven't found my groove yet in this— yeah— in this business. Like, I'm, I'm very good at what I do. Could I be better? Absolutely. But I also get joy out of helping out tons of people.

00:05:34:17 - 00:05:52:16
Eric Lombard
I mean, I think I talked to Craig about this last year. I mean, every single person on our team last year, with the other team lead, increased their volume. And if I was 1% a part of that, great. I love seeing p— people grow. But also, it's been a journey with this company, just watching it from 10 people to now I don't even know how many people now are with Milestone, because we're so broad now.

00:05:52:22 - 00:06:13:17
Eric Lombard
But, um, but I appreciate everything that you guys have done, and Rachel, and, you know, so many others to get me here. I mean, I was able to buy a couple properties now over the last couple years, help family out. Um, I've done all my brothers' loans. Um, besides my brother Gary.

00:06:13:22 - 00:06:37:24
Eric Lombard
I had to defer that one to, uh, my brother Craig. Actually, I deferred Ryan's to Craig too because— as a brother of 2, you know, my, my, you know, I'm one of 8 kids, and, uh, my 2 older brothers, still to this day at 43 years old, I still feel like that little younger brother. Yeah. And, uh, I love them to death, how they talk to me and how they talk to, as my brother Gary, "Mr. Snell," but—

00:06:37:24 - 00:06:57:21
Eric Lombard
and then it's very different when I'm asking for a bank statement opposed to him. And I still remember, you know, I was doing Gary's second refinance, and, "Hey, Gary, I need XYZ." And he'd give me so much like, you know, headaches and so much, like, stress. And then you'd get on the phone with Craig, and it was just like— "I'll send it over tonight."

00:06:57:21 - 00:07:14:12
Eric Lombard
"I'll send it right over to you." And I was just like, "You know what? Do all my family's loans." I don't care, because, you know, that's worth it. But, you know, I've learned so much over the years. I mean, you know, I used to re— I used to think refer el— ineligible was just a normal thing. And, um, I remember there was no trainings back then. Oh, my God, there was none.

00:07:14:12 - 00:07:36:08
Eric Lombard
There was no trainings. It was just you and Craig and a few other of us in, like, this corner room. And Craig would shut his door and he'd do, uh, do all his business. Vern was a maniac, was always running around, making sure XYZ's going on. And then there'd be 4 or 5 LOs in this other room, and we would just sit there and just be like, "Hey, I got one approved, you know, proved eligible."

00:07:36:08 - 00:07:57:14
Eric Lombard
And we'd be like, "How'd you do it?" Like, "We don't know." And like, "We kind of did this." So, and we— but that's literally how we learned. I, I literally learned from just watching and watching and learning and listening. And, uh, so now with all the technology and stuff we have now, these LOs are, you know, they're, they're spoiled in a good way. You know, because all you— you know, all this company wants to do is grow everybody.

00:07:57:16 - 00:08:14:01
Eric Lombard
You know, one of the, one of the best things Vern's ever said was he wants every single LO to make 6 figures, right? And you said that— that's the goal. You said that a few years ago, and that one resonated to me. And, uh, because I was like, "Wow." Like, that's his mindset, to have every single LO in this company make 6 figures.

00:08:14:01 - 00:08:25:19
Eric Lombard
And that just shows how this company is. It's not about us, it's about everyone else. So, and I'm huge on that. You know, this— it's a family. It's a way bigger family, sometimes dysfunctional, but that's family.

00:08:25:20 - 00:08:40:14
Vernon Miles
A lot of time it's dysfunctional. And without, without having you in the position that you're in as a team leader and having that background and that, like, they go to you now, like— mm-hmm— being the senior guy, and now you're, you're the one showing them how to run findings that don't say refer ineligible.

00:08:40:16 - 00:08:58:08
Eric Lombard
Oh, yeah. No, it's funny. It's because, like, you know, I bartended for almost 18 years. And when you're a bartender, you're a psychologist, you're a friend, you're a family member to these guests, right? Yeah. And one of the reasons this job has just clicked with me from really the beginning is because it's no different than bartending. It's customer service, right?

00:08:58:09 - 00:09:12:05
Eric Lombard
I've always said this. I, I've said this line to my, m— to my team members. I say it, I've said it to you guys, I'm sure. You don't go to a bar for a Jack and Coke because a Jack and Coke is better. You go back because you want to see the person giving it to you. It's the same thing with loans, right?

00:09:12:06 - 00:09:31:22
Eric Lombard
The loans are the exact same thing. The interest rate is the interest rate, the payment's the payment, but you're going back to the person who's helping you because you have a connection with them, and that's what it's all about. So this job to me is, it's fun. I mean, does it get stressful? Sure. But I mean, I think we're doing okay compared to, you know, a lot of other people's jobs.

00:09:31:22 - 00:09:39:18
Eric Lombard
And they're on roofs when it's 95 degrees outside, or they're landscapers and they're busting their ass. God bless them. And God bless them. I could never do it. No. So I could never do it. I mean, I'm out of shape, so I'd definitely not do it.

00:09:39:19 - 00:09:51:12
Vernon Miles
I joke around with Craig about if we had to go back into, like, the workforce and— it would take a while— maybe 2 hours a day. And then he goes, "Maybe an hour a week."

00:09:51:14 - 00:10:09:18
Eric Lombard
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I mean, it's been, it's been a journey, and it's, it— I mean, I'll never leave this company, God willing. Um, I'll never go anywhere else. I mean, this has been, for me, it's been just an amazing, amazing run. It's been an amazing journey, and I'm just starting. Yeah. I mean, 6 years in, you, you've been doing this for what, 20 years now, right?

00:10:09:19 - 00:10:10:22
Vernon Miles
Yeah. Over 20 years.

00:10:10:23 - 00:10:11:12
Craig Snell
Yeah.

00:10:11:14 - 00:10:30:02
Vernon Miles
And to your point, a lot of people call it a job, and I— yeah— hate just saying that. Yeah. It's not even a job to me. Like, I look forward to coming into the office— yeah— and, like, just talking shit with the guys. Absolutely. Rosie was just on, and seeing all the different personalities that we have. Some good on, depends upon the mood that everybody's in.

00:10:30:03 - 00:10:34:10
Vernon Miles
And I'm like, "All right. Staying away from Kevin today. He looks like he's got smoke coming out of his ears."

00:10:34:12 - 00:10:36:07
Eric Lombard
Yeah. I mean, that's just part of the job. I mean.

00:10:36:10 - 00:10:38:14
Vernon Miles
But it's like one big family we're walking into.

00:10:38:16 - 00:10:54:17
Eric Lombard
100%. I mean, I could work from home 7 days a week if I wanted to. I could, I could work from home. No one would say a thing to me, but I have no desire to work from home. Like, walking in and, and seeing everyone, and just talking with everyone, and, you know, and shooting the shit with everybody, that's what this, that's what this career and everything's about.

00:10:54:18 - 00:11:12:04
Vernon Miles
Yeah. Especially recently, I feel like in the last, I'd say, couple weeks, I've seen more people in the office, and I'm like, the energy's starting to pick up, and then you can tell when everybody's, like, really grinding at those hours. I just walked out, and you could hear a pin drop— mm-hmm— on the entire side, and just everybody sitting there typing like little maniacs.

00:11:12:04 - 00:11:19:11
Vernon Miles
And I'm like, "All right. Well, I guess it's go time right now." It's 2:00 on a Wednesday, and everybody's just— no one's even talking. It's like, what happened out here?

00:11:19:12 - 00:11:20:20
Eric Lombard
No, I get it. Trust me.

00:11:20:21 - 00:11:28:14
Vernon Miles
Walking around the sales side and just seeing every cubicle, people, like, sitting everywhere, helping each other out. I'm like, "All right. We're back." Like, it almost feels like pre-COVID.

00:11:28:16 - 00:11:48:20
Eric Lombard
Yeah. To your point, yeah, the, the energy's changing a little bit. I think, I think with all the changes that come with trying to grow a company, I mean, I've, I've done some other starter companies as well. I was in, actually, the medical field for a little while. Um, and watching that starter company grow, you're gonna have some hurdles, you're gonna have some headaches and all that stuff, things like that.

00:11:48:20 - 00:12:00:24
Eric Lombard
But at the end of the day, watching, I think now we're just at a great point where we have systems in place. We have who you go to for certain things, so now the chaos is kinda quieting down a little bit.

00:12:00:24 - 00:12:08:09
Vernon Miles
And the systems that work. We had a lot of systems that did not work. That probably never have worked. That's a whole different episode, but— yeah.

00:12:08:10 - 00:12:17:18
Eric Lombard
Well, yeah. That episode, uh, you know, for me, I'm not, I'm not the best with technology at all. Um, God, Craig's made fun of me so much over the years that it's just like— I have to.

00:12:17:20 - 00:12:18:24
Vernon Miles
Well, we have that in common.

00:12:19:01 - 00:12:37:19
Eric Lombard
Well, yeah. Well, it took you— I, I thought it was gonna take you 5 minutes. All right. I don't know what you did on that thing. No, it was Rinaldo. Yeah, he's, he's on, coming on this episode. No, only one Cape Verdean a year. But, um, but, um, but technology's never been my thing ever. I mean, I was a bartender. You know, you didn't have to worry about technology. POS system, you type in.

00:12:37:20 - 00:13:01:23
Eric Lombard
So now that we don't have all the changes, I think it is also, you know, for guys like me anyway, it's, I know I'm walking into, I know what to expect. And, uh, and I mean, there's, there's so much help here, and there's so much love here and so much respect here between the LOs that it's fun. Because watching somebody, uh, Rosemary right now, who's having her biggest year ever, um, you know, Rob Serpa, who's always been a stud, you know, since he came over from Stonegate, and, uh, or, or Bobby Zahner, and watching these guys who come over and they lean on me because sometimes people just reach out to me 'cause they just wanna talk to me.

00:13:02:00 - 00:13:25:05
Eric Lombard
Yeah. Right? And, uh, and I've always kept a mindset of, listen, if you're having a bad day, if I have a bad day, people see it with me because I'm, usually don't have bad days. So it's always been my mindset. My parents taught me this as well, is if you're gonna be a leader, you lead by example, so you have to have a good attitude even when you don't want to because people are gonna lean on you and feed off your energy.

00:13:25:05 - 00:13:42:16
Eric Lombard
Yeah. And, uh, that's what I try to do. Don't get me wrong. I'm not perfect by any means, but, uh, but I love the office.

00:13:42:16 - 00:13:42:22
Vernon Miles
We all have those days.

00:13:42:22 - 00:13:44:05
Vernon Miles
Oh, you bet.

00:13:44:06 - 00:13:45:00
Craig Snell
I think the office—

00:13:45:00 - 00:13:46:20
Craig Snell
is so much fun. And, you know, I've—

00:13:46:21 - 00:13:56:18
Craig Snell
I feel bad that, you know, we have people that can't come into the office every day, because that culture that we have here, and it's just, honestly, it's like you're just kinda hanging out with a bunch of your best friends.

00:13:56:18 - 00:14:13:09
Craig Snell
And you're just, you know, everyone's working, grinding, need help, everyone's help. I mean, at the end of the day, the loan officers are, to a point, competing against each other, but that's never been the vibe here. Yeah. It's always been like you've had help— you, you will help somebody else. They'll help you. Yep. Vice versa.

00:14:13:09 - 00:14:32:12
Craig Snell
And I see it on the sales floor all the time with, you know, I walk over there, and someone's in somebody else's office because they're helping them with something, and you know, that culture. And then afterwards it's like, "Hey, let's go hang out." It's like, everybody here wants to hang out together and go play golf together, go do whatever together. Mm-hmm. Hang out on the weekends. After work, go grab a drink.

00:14:32:16 - 00:14:46:22
Craig Snell
Bust each other's balls like you would— all the time— like, you know, that you don't usually have in, like, a work environment. I mean, to a point, you know? No. And I think it just makes it fun where I'm on the same page. Like, I wanna come into the office. I would not wanna work from home. I couldn't work from home. No, I couldn't either. It's proven. No. I could not work from home.

00:14:46:22 - 00:15:03:15
Vernon Miles
If I work from home, nothing's getting done. Yeah, no. I'd be hanging out and doing nothing. I'm doing too many other things, but— Craig would be watching his grass grow right now. This is exactly what would be happening. This, this is true. Kinda wanna go watch it, huh? Yes. Haven't saw it, but down right now. Pretty excited about it.

00:15:03:16 - 00:15:25:03
Eric Lombard
Yeah, no, it's, um, it's been fun, man. It really has. I can't believe it's 6 years, like, doing this. I can't believe that. It's— I, I really can't. Sometimes I wake up, and I'm like, "Wow," like, "this is what you do." And honestly, as you go in this business, the years fly. 'Cause I remember my first year or 2— fast— in this business, it felt like every day was 15 hours. 1, 'cause I didn't know what I was doing.

00:15:25:06 - 00:15:45:15
Eric Lombard
2, because I just had no kind of, I had no structure. I had no nothing. And now it's like, okay, like, you know what? You know, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, if I put in the work on those days, set me up for the weekend, you know, the weekends come, and I'm able to golf, and I'm able to do things because I'm always trying to be 2 steps ahead.

00:15:45:16 - 00:16:05:21
Eric Lombard
And as I grow my business more, and as I get better, whatever the volume I do is the volume. It's about the work you put in. Yeah. Right? The numbers don't always translate. Oh, no. You, you can work really hard and— and do— have a bad 6 months. Like— and do nothing. But, um, I'm able to separate things with this, with this career because one, like Craig just said, it's a family here, and all of us bust each other's balls.

00:16:06:00 - 00:16:23:15
Eric Lombard
The guys and not even just the guys, but especially on the sales side. I mean, it is so funny to hear just the absolute l— like, whether it's Jared Methia or Jacob, or they just go at each other, but they do it in so much love because it's just like, all you wanna do is see your, you know, see your people succeed, but you also gotta bring them down a little bit.

00:16:23:15 - 00:16:39:04
Eric Lombard
Sometimes if their chest gets a little bit too big, right? And, um— we might have to put a, put a bullet in Jacob's chest. He's getting— he's blowing up over there. No, he's not blowing up. He's 138 pounds. So he's, he's not, he's not blowing up at all. I mean, he's— Jacob's gonna be a stud in this business.

00:16:39:10 - 00:16:42:00
Eric Lombard
Yeah. And, uh, he, he'll, he's, his chest will—

00:16:42:02 - 00:16:42:20
Vernon Miles
He loves talking shit, though.

00:16:42:23 - 00:16:56:11
Eric Lombard
Well, he likes— especially recently. Well, he's funny though, because you have people that can talk shit, and then you talk shit back to them, they can't take it. So, you know, you gotta pick your— there's a few of them over there. There's a lot over there. So, there's a lot over there.

00:16:56:12 - 00:17:14:14
Eric Lombard
So people don't come at me— 'cause I'm not sensitive at all. I've been through everything in my life and, you know, without my upbringing or whatever else. So yeah, I'm not, I'm not a sensitive guy. So you come at me, just be ready. That's all I say. Guns blazing. Guns blazing. That's it. I mean, I'm not gonna be disrespectful to you. But trust me, you're gonna get it back.

00:17:14:16 - 00:17:30:14
Vernon Miles
You're gonna cry. Yeah. I mean, let's just put it what it is. Like, Jared and Jacob, like, you're gonna put them in a box. Trevor just found out. Yeah, he tr— trust— a very new LO just found out. He got, uh, he got a little excited. And, um, he sat right back down and put his head down. So that— yep.

00:17:30:16 - 00:17:46:20
Eric Lombard
I don't even know his last name, but— he's, uh— but, uh, he learned quickly. He hasn't closed his first loan. You don't know his, you don't need to know his name. No, no, honestly. I— that's the rule. No, he is, uh— he learned very quickly. But, um, I would—

00:17:46:22 - 00:18:06:14
Vernon Miles
So other than Milestone, I know you and Craig are diehard golfers. And, uh, soon enough, by the time this airs, you guys will be getting prepared for the, uh, 4ball tournament, and I was just, uh, in Texas with, uh, Brandon Adams. He's throwing a big golf tournament down there. I didn't, we didn't know anything about, or we were probably sent to force him down there, but tell us a little bit about.

00:18:06:14 - 00:18:17:10
Vernon Miles
'Cause he was asking me all about the 4ball tournament. And I think it's like the oldest in the country. Mm-hmm. Am I good? I didn't lie about that. Mm-hmm. Um, and you guys both play in that. Yeah. That's, uh, that's Craig's, uh, focal point for the year.

00:18:17:11 - 00:18:17:19
Craig Snell
Yeah.

00:18:17:23 - 00:18:28:20
Vernon Miles
And, uh, it's the only time of the year where I'm like, "Just leave Craig alone. Like, just don't bother him. Please don't call him. Just"— I've never seen him shut down for 4 or 5 days where it's like, "Just leave him alone."

00:18:28:22 - 00:18:45:10
Eric Lombard
Yeah. No, it's— I mean, Craig will talk about it as well. I mean, I'll chime in real quick. It's the best tournament there is. It's the best tournament. I've, I've, I've played so many golf tournaments over the years. It's the most fun week there is. Um, I just found out today that I have to qualify again for the third straight year.

00:18:45:12 - 00:18:46:03
Eric Lombard
But.

00:18:46:05 - 00:18:47:07
Vernon Miles
You seem pretty happy about that.

00:18:47:07 - 00:19:05:11
Eric Lombard
It is what it is. Honestly, I'm a, I'm a competitor. Yeah. So I, I don't, I don't— that's fair— I don't do the complaining thing. You know, what's in front of you, you gotta compete, and what's in front of you, you gotta handle. And, um, and my partner and I, we'll, we'll get in it again. And, um, but when you're in it, and the reason you shut down is 'cause you have to.

00:19:05:13 - 00:19:27:01
Eric Lombard
Yeah. It is the biggest grind. Like, you wanna talk about work grind? No, that is a mental and, and physical, really a mental challenge. To compete on the level that you have to compete at to win these tournaments, it's, it's, it's— I, I can't describe it, and maybe Craig can describe it a little better than I can, but you're so locked in that if you have any distractions.

00:19:27:02 - 00:19:50:08
Eric Lombard
Like, if he paid his team just for that week, he, he would be worth it for Craig because he understands, like, like, I don't even have a team. And that week for me is I do so much prep work in July because that week my phone goes away. Like, it has to because it's, it's, everyone wants that tournament so much and, and it's— it— I don't even know how to describe how great that tournament is.

00:19:50:08 - 00:19:54:12
Eric Lombard
You're so focused in. You have friends and family walking the course with you.

00:19:54:14 - 00:20:01:00
Vernon Miles
Um— do you— I'm at the, I'm at New Bedford Country Club more during the 4ball tournament than I am the rest of the year. Yeah. And you guys are there all the time.

00:20:01:00 - 00:20:23:22
Craig Snell
It's just like everything that it brings, it's not just a golf tournament. Yeah. You know, it brings everyone's family there. You get spectators. You get— you know, and as the week goes on, there's more spectators, uh, you know, as it kind of dials down. Mm-hmm. So it's like you wanna be in that. You wanna get to that point and play on the weekend to be able to, you know, play in front of people, which is not something in amateur golf that you get a whole lot of.

00:20:23:23 - 00:20:43:10
Craig Snell
You know, but then even after, it's the, you know, every night there's something. There's a family night where all the kids come up, and there's a ton of younger guys that have kids there now. You know, and I've been a part of the 4ball since I was a little kid. I used to ride in the cart between my dad and his partner. You know, and now I play in it, and it's just— you know, there's an auction on Monday where all the guys get together.

00:20:43:10 - 00:21:00:20
Craig Snell
You talk shit about all the teams and talk shit about everybody's handicap and what it is and what it, what it should be. And it's just, it's part of the experience of it. And then, you know, the grind starts on Tuesday, and it's match play, 64 teams— and there can only be one winner. So, you know, and there's a lot of disappointed people. There's— but at the end of the day, it's just so much fun.

00:21:00:20 - 00:21:15:07
Craig Snell
And, and it's, you're playing in this tournament with the majority of the guys you know. Right. So it's like, even when you're out or after, it's like you wanna go watch your— 90% of the time we finish playing, and I don't even go under the tent yet.

00:21:15:07 - 00:21:31:06
Craig Snell
You, you literally hop back out there to go watch your buddies play their match. And, and then once it all finishes, you all go under the tent, hang out, you know, drink, have fun, have dinner. There's a bunch of different fun nights for it. It's, it's not like any other tournament— no— where it's just—

00:21:31:06 - 00:21:51:07
Craig Snell
so many other tournaments are like golf, golf, golf, golf, and then, like, maybe, like, an awards thing after, and you know. But this is, like, it's an ex— I mean, people— it's an event— travel from all over the country to come play in it as guests. And, you know, there's a, I don't know how many people signed up this year, but there's over— I mean, qualifying you'll probably have 20, 20 teams that have to qualify for X number of open spots.

00:21:51:07 - 00:22:05:19
Eric Lombard
Yeah. So the word on the street right now is for the 4ball, there's 20 teams, and it's either gonna be 4 or 5 spots. So, and that's, so, and that's coming up in 2 weeks. So like I said, I got the email this morning. Literally driving to work, email this morning. I was like, "All right, here we go."

00:22:05:19 - 00:22:23:17
Eric Lombard
And, uh, you know, I text my partner, you know, Ryan Blaine. I texted him, and he was just like, you know, I won't say everything he said. But he, he, basically he said, "We gotta do it again." Yeah. You know, let's just do it again because there's nothing like it. And, um, you know, and it— but the thing about, you know, Craig made a great point.

00:22:23:17 - 00:22:43:00
Eric Lombard
If for some reason we didn't qualify, I'm still there every week— yeah— because I wanna watch my boys play. Because, honestly, supporting your boys on the, that kind of tournament and having eas— ease their stress in this tournament, because it's a big deal. This tournament's a big deal. Like, it's, it's a massive deal. It's fun, but I mean, we all wanna win, but—

00:22:43:00 - 00:22:43:16
Vernon Miles
But I—

00:22:43:16 - 00:23:16:18
Vernon Miles
got sucked into the 4ball tournament, and I, everybody who knows, I am not a golfer. I am terrible at golf. Maybe a little mini golf I can, I can get down with. But I got sucked into the, to the 4ball tournament for the Monday night— oh, the auction— and I think we need to spend a solid 3 to 5 minutes, because I have done a lot of things in my life, a lot of things. I've gambled. I've done wild things. And my first time, Craig's like, and I think this is going back to, I mean, we started this in 2019, so that was the first year I knew Craig that this could have been.

00:23:16:18 - 00:23:32:17
Vernon Miles
So it was either '19 or '20. And he's like, "Hey, you wanna come by the 4ball tournament? We're doing an auction tonight." I had no idea what I was, I was getting into. I didn't, A, I didn't know what I was getting into. B, I wish I never went— uh, because now I'm just sucked in.

00:23:32:19 - 00:24:05:03
Vernon Miles
So on that Monday night, they, everybody that's playing in the tournament, their friends, they're all invited, and then you guys have an auction. And explain now, right, you're auctioning off the teams. But what does that money look like, and how do the teams, like, how do the— why is one team worth X and the other team's worth Y? And then we'll let Lombard at the end, maybe, uh, talk about Craig's psycho self, uh, having to buy, you know, 50% of the field— yeah— and have, have close to 60, $70,000 wagering on the golf tournament.

00:24:05:09 - 00:24:11:21
Vernon Miles
And, uh, the first year I was like— he's like, "Hey, do you wanna, you wanna buy some teams with me?" I'm like, "Yeah, of course I wanna buy some teams."

00:24:11:22 - 00:24:32:06
Craig Snell
I love it. Makes it fun. And so the auction, you, you auction off all the teams. So they go, there's a legit auctioneer that shows up, and the guy starts rattling. Like, you could barely understand what he's saying. He's like, "What-ba-da, ba-da, ba-da, ba-da, ba-da," just going, going, going, going. And you start bidding on the teams. And, you know, there's favorites, just like anything, you know, based on what somebody's handicap is.

00:24:32:07 - 00:24:51:18
Craig Snell
And, again, you know, most of the players, so there's certain teams that go for a lot of money because they're a heavy favorite of who's gonna win. And there's other teams that, you know, are not as competitive that people think. And, but it doesn't matter. I mean, anybody can win, right? It's a handicap tournament, so there's strokes. And, you know, you can, you can play good and, and you get enough strokes.

00:24:51:18 - 00:25:11:18
Craig Snell
You can beat a— you know, it's one of those tournaments where you can be a 12 handicap, and you can be playing against 2 plus twos, and you guys can win the tournament, you know, or win that match. And so the teams get auctioned off, and it's a bidding war. So you have hundreds of guys that are standing there and, you know, a lot of testosterone that's getting thrown around and— a few cocktails— you know, a few cocktails. And, and—

00:25:12:12 - 00:25:16:23
Vernon Miles
You just see the flash card of 69. Craig Snell. 69 number just popping up. Funny.

00:25:16:24 - 00:25:26:24
Eric Lombard
So the first time I experienced the 4ball was 2021. I was in the satellite. So satellite's like a, like a, like a lower, a lower—

00:25:27:01 - 00:25:35:07
Craig Snell
It's like one day less, so it's 32 teams— yeah, 32 teams, whatever— usually less competitive golfers play in that tournament. Yeah. Not, not, not always, but just—

00:25:35:08 - 00:25:35:13
Eric Lombard
Yeah.

00:25:35:16 - 00:25:38:17
Craig Snell
They play for, like, closer tees and stuff. Yeah. So it's kind of—

00:25:38:17 - 00:25:44:05
Eric Lombard
set up for that. So like you said, the satellite's the same thing. It's a fun thing, so I did that my first year. And, uh, but anyway, so the auction.

00:25:44:05 - 00:25:47:22
Eric Lombard
And I'm sitting there with Craig, and he's like, "You wanna go in on this, on this betting?"

00:25:48:01 - 00:25:49:14
Vernon Miles
You didn't know what you were getting into.

00:25:49:14 - 00:26:08:17
Craig Snell
And I had no idea what kind of money we're talking about. We're not talking, like, 500 bucks, $300. We're talking, like, the total pool last year was, like, around $180,000. And, uh, so Craig was like, you know, I think I threw $1,000. I never bet $1,000 on something before. And so Craig spends whatever money. So then year 2—

00:26:08:19 - 00:26:10:17
Vernon Miles
Not whatever, like the home equity loan first, first off.

00:26:10:19 - 00:26:11:19
Craig Snell
Like, I have other— well.

00:26:11:21 - 00:26:14:03
Vernon Miles
Yeah, he's got a whole master plan on how this breaks out.

00:26:14:04 - 00:26:22:14
Eric Lombard
Well, yes, he does, but also— also have had the winning team a couple of years. He also had a c— winning team. Actually, the year that I bet with Craig, he, uh— but it makes it— we won— it makes it fun because— it makes it fun.

00:26:22:15 - 00:26:23:23
Vernon Miles
Was that the year his dad won?

00:26:23:24 - 00:26:59:06
Craig Snell
My dad's won twice. He's won twice. But I— won la— uh, 2 years ago. Yeah, and then we had a year— so, so when you bid on the team, like, teams will range from, like, the lowest at $800. The highest probably s— $6,500, the team will go for, and maybe like the m— roughly like— yeah. I mean, it depends on the year, right? Yeah, yep. Um, so and then when you buy the team, you, you offer back half the team to the 2 people that are playing. So they can take half of it, or they can take none of it, or they can, if you're a certain person, you can take like— like 8%— an 8th of it.

00:26:59:06 - 00:26:59:20
Vernon Miles
Yeah. Um, which is kind of weird. But, uh— I can't wait for him to watch this.

00:27:00:01 - 00:27:20:20
Craig Snell
So, so then if, uh, so then if they win, if you win, like if, if I buy Eric's team and Eric and his— which I bought Eric's team before— and him and his partner will, will split it. So if, if we win, you know, a p— a heavy percentage of the total pot goes to the winning team, and then it breaks off. Because you're not just done if you lose once. You get broken off into other, like, subcategories of the tournament.

00:27:20:20 - 00:27:35:09
Craig Snell
So there's money to be made. You know, even if you lose the first 2 days, you can still win money— yep— in it. You just can't lose after that. So then you split it. But if you have the— some teams don't buy it, and there's really only a few teams that don't buy it. And I, we bought the— and it's not just me.

00:27:35:10 - 00:27:41:15
Craig Snell
I mean, my dad and I pretty much split all of it, and then we get some other people to— yeah— pool in what they wanna, what they wanna do as well.

00:27:41:18 - 00:27:47:18
Vernon Miles
You get a big group of people throwing some real cash. Yeah. Yeah. Like, you guys are collecting 40 to 60,000 to buy teams.

00:27:47:19 - 00:28:01:00
Craig Snell
Yeah, y— oh, yeah. I mean, I think last year was probably 30 or 40,000 was like the total in the teams that we bought. But, you know, most of those buy half— yeah— and then you split it up. So it's not like insane insane, but I mean, it does, it is a lot of cash you gotta try to get together by the next day.

00:28:01:01 - 00:28:03:08
Vernon Miles
Oh. No one's ever prepared. Everybody calls Kevin.

00:28:03:14 - 00:28:19:15
Craig Snell
Ke— Kevin always has a stack of cash at home, so— Kevin has a stack of cash. I usually borrow it off of him, and or I go to the bank, too. We try to pool it all together to get it. But it's, honestly, it's a pain in the butt because, uh, you gotta pay by the next morning before you tee off.

00:28:19:15 - 00:28:34:17
Craig Snell
And it's not a pain in the butt for us to get our money together. It's the teams. When you buy that many— mm-hmm— I'm trying to find, like, all these guys to, like, get the money from them. So that can be a pain in the butt a little bit. But honestly, it makes it fun because then every day you're watching the leaderboard, or you're watching the board, and you're like, "Hey, my team's still in it."

00:28:34:17 - 00:28:54:24
Craig Snell
And you can, you know, and you could be totally out of the tournament. Like, I could lose and be done on Thursday, but I could own half the teams that are still left. And you start playing with the numbers on like, okay, well, if this team wins their division, this is like kinda how much you make. And, you know, so we got lucky where 2 years we had the team that won. In the past fi— probably 5, 5 or s— I've probably been going at the auction pretty heavy for the last like 4 or 5 years.

00:28:55:01 - 00:28:59:21
Craig Snell
But.

00:28:59:24 - 00:29:00:13
Vernon Miles
2, 6.

00:29:00:15 - 00:29:09:16
Craig Snell
Yeah, maybe a little longer than that. But 2 of the years we had the winning team that did not have half, and that's where it was— that's where you win some money— that's when you really can kinda capitalize on it.

00:29:09:18 - 00:29:31:02
Eric Lombard
Well, the last 2 years I've heard Craig say, "You know, I'm not gonna go big this year." I always say that. So— yeah, he's— because— it's happening again this year— well, yeah, because it's gonna happen again. Well, yeah, because, um, but then once someone says X amount of money, oh, you know, 4,000, and then they're like, "Come on, Snell." And he just turns around and he's like— and then you see the ticking clock.

00:29:31:04 - 00:29:50:05
Vernon Miles
Sometimes I— some draw back the drapes. Sometimes I— that's, that's exactly what it is— the testosterone. And then number 69 pops up. He's like— oh they're like, "Craig Snell." I mean, 'cause that's what it is. Like, 'cause he doesn't wanna lose anything. Sometimes I don't even look at the auction guy. I just stare at the person— he doesn't— he just stares at the people— that's bidding against me and just keep raising my hand— I'm like, "Craig, it's weird"— and just turn around.

00:29:50:06 - 00:30:15:08
Eric Lombard
He just stares at them. And then they quit. And so it's really like— but the auction is a blast. It is. Yeah, I think it's the best part— it is a blast— of the entire week. It's, uh, it's, it, it's so fun to watch just grown men just like— going at each other— like, going at each other, looking at each other like— yeah— "Who's gonna spend more?" And I'm like, this is insane. Like, 2 out of 64, right? Yeah. 2 people out of the 64— 1, 1, yeah, one out of— is gonna win, is gonna win it— one out of 64 wins it.

00:30:15:08 - 00:30:31:22
Craig Snell
Yeah, it's even, yeah, it's even crazier. But, I mean, you make— you, the, you're not buying them to just hit that one, 'cause you can make money on— yeah— second place. Yeah, yeah. You can make money on the second division, s— first division, and every, every break off of it. For the most part, if you make it to the weekend, most of the divisions pay out.

00:30:31:22 - 00:30:51:20
Vernon Miles
So it gets pretty chopped up. Uh, but if you win on Sunday, you, I mean, if you win on Sunday, most of the divisions you're making money on that team. I feel like the only time that I, I'm really into it is when I like throw money in. So he'll be like— yes— "You gotta throw in." That's, that's why people— I'm like, well, I just throw it in— bet on a sport. And then I'll be like, "Oh, yeah, bet."

00:30:51:21 - 00:31:09:24
Eric Lombard
Then driving around a golf cart on Saturday and Sunday, I'm like— right— "Oh, they have to win." Well, that's what it is too. It's the same thing. I bet football on, 'cause I, you know, I don't care about the Steelers and the Browns, but if I have 100 bucks on it, I'm gonna watch the game. Yeah. Yeah. It makes it interesting. It's the same thing with this.

00:31:10:00 - 00:31:10:17
Craig Snell
It's such a—

00:31:10:18 - 00:31:13:23
Eric Lombard
I mean, every year I bet it as well because it just, it just gets the blood going a little bit. And there's a fun part of being like, "I own you." Like— facts. It seems like— facts— can't believe Daddy's saying that. But yeah, no, the 4ball's a blast, and like I said, I'll, uh— it is.

00:31:14:01 - 00:31:15:19
Craig Snell
Did you play in the 4ball twice?

00:31:15:20 - 00:31:15:23
Eric Lombard
Yeah.

00:31:16:00 - 00:31:19:12
Craig Snell
And then you've qual— you tried to qualify once and didn't get in, or was it— no— the satellite?

00:31:19:13 - 00:31:25:17
Eric Lombard
2 for 2. 2 for 2. 2 for 2 with the 4ball. Made it twice. We won our matches. So the third of the time was you played in the satellite.

00:31:25:18 - 00:31:43:02
Eric Lombard
Yep. Satellite. Yep. And then, um, with, uh, Justin Methia, and then we lost the first 2 days, but then we won the next 3. So we won on Sunday. Yeah. In like the lowest division, but we got to play 5 days. Yeah, yeah. And, uh, we had like 60 people watching us. In fact, my mother, for the first time ever in my entire life—

00:31:43:04 - 00:31:45:11
Craig Snell
75% of them were your family.

00:31:45:12 - 00:32:00:19
Eric Lombard
Yeah. Like literally. That's so big. So my mom showed up on Sunday, and my mom's never seen me golf before. It's the most nervous first tee shot I ever had in my life, and I have no idea why. She doesn't even know what's going on. So, and I remember teeing off and I remember Angela, my sister Angela, uh, I believe it was my sister Angela, anyway, drives over and is like, "Eric."

00:32:00:19 - 00:32:17:23
Eric Lombard
Mom waves to me and my hands start shaking. My mom doesn't care at all about like, golf, whatever. So long story short is we go to extra holes. We're on the 19th hole. We're on the extra hole. I make a putt to win the match. I look over at my mom and she's crying like I won the Masters.

00:32:17:24 - 00:32:33:17
Eric Lombard
And it's like, I think we would've won like $38. But like, she was like broken down. And I remember giving her a big hug and I go, "Oh my God." You know, we're talking, and she's like, "Oh my God, that was amazing." And I'm like, "How you enjoy?" She goes, "I only watched you hit 4 shots all day."

00:32:33:18 - 00:32:46:22
Eric Lombard
I'm like, "What do you mean?" She's like, "I couldn't do it." I'm like, I'm like, "What do you mean you couldn't do it?" She's like, "It brought me back to you being in Little League, where I used to panic about you getting hit with a ball." I'm like, "What?" So the bottom line is my mom— friends. Yeah, literally.

00:32:46:22 - 00:33:07:10
Eric Lombard
I think we had 60 people watching our final match on the satellite, lowest division. Like, you normally, like, nobody's like, you have a massive group of people all, like, way behind in the championship divisions, and then, like, those guys are just the thing. You have a crowd following you, watching golf, like we. And there's so much pressure on it because you want to win.

00:33:07:11 - 00:33:20:19
Craig Snell
Yeah. Just to, like, get to the next— because you wanna get to the next day. Nobody wants to lose right away, because then you're out of that main division, and that's the only way you can win the whole thing. But even once you lose, you know, you can still keep going. So then you kind of gotta, like, all right, shake it off.

00:33:20:20 - 00:33:40:20
Craig Snell
You lost. But then you go back the next day and you try to keep winning. And then Thursday's the day that, for the most part, unless you're in the Championship division, that you can't lose after that day, you're done. Nobody wants to be done playing. So it doesn't, like, it doesn't matter if you lost the first day and the second day, like, you're still trying just as hard, you know, later in the week because you wanna be done. You wanna be in the action.

00:33:40:21 - 00:33:43:04
Craig Snell
Ask you guys.

00:33:43:04 - 00:34:02:14
Vernon Miles
This because I've heard this now for 6 or 7 4ball tournaments, and I just don't understand it. So I'm friends with a few of the chiropractors around, and they're like, "Oh, the week before the 4ball, everybody's coming in here getting cracked up." Like, why would they do that if they've never done that before, like, leading up?

00:34:02:15 - 00:34:11:05
Vernon Miles
Or the fact that Craig hasn't played 2 rounds of golf in back-to-back days for 2 months, and then he's going out and playing for 4 days in a row.

00:34:11:07 - 00:34:15:11
Craig Snell
At least— it hurts the body. Yeah, that's not, like, that.

00:34:15:15 - 00:34:34:19
Vernon Miles
From like a training perspective. I'm like, how do you— and I wish you guys all the luck in the world, right. But, like, I would say, the guy that plays 4 times a week, 4 days in a row plays 18 holes, how do they not have the edge? Just like from the stamina, because I've seen Craig like towards the end and I'm like, this dude's exhausted.

00:34:34:19 - 00:34:36:12
Craig Snell
Like, it's very—

00:34:36:14 - 00:34:38:02
Vernon Miles
Laser focused, right? Like, well.

00:34:38:03 - 00:34:51:22
Eric Lombard
I mean, Craig's father won 2 years ago. He does not play 5 or 6 days in a row. It also comes, it comes down to me, a few different things. I don't go to a chiropractor and nothing like that. I think it's just that your, your competitive brain kicks in to, like, if you win on Tuesday and Wednesday—

00:34:51:23 - 00:34:52:15
Vernon Miles
You're competitive.

00:34:52:15 - 00:34:53:22
Vernon Miles
At that point you're like locked in.

00:34:53:23 - 00:35:09:08
Eric Lombard
I am, I am, I am almost the weekend. Like, it just, it's long too, because, like, we're drinking every night. Like, not everybody does, but, like, you're out until 10:00, 11:00, you know, and then you're back out at the course early, and it's like you wake up stiff, but once you kind of get going—

00:35:09:09 - 00:35:23:13
Craig Snell
You just, you know, you— click in— you kind of just, you know, a few holes start going, and then you kind of just loosen back up and, and go. But I mean, it is an exhausting week on the body. Yeah, no, you are— like after you play that week, you don't wanna golf for a little while. In fact— it, like, look at it this way, right?

00:35:23:13 - 00:35:45:09
Craig Snell
We almost didn't play. Like, if you, if we played in something 2 days in a row and then the third day you gotta go play and it meant nothing, like— yeah— I'm saying no. I'm saying no. But with this— no, it's true— you know, you wanna keep going. You don't even feel it. Honestly, you just, it, it, it's just, it, I, it's nothing like it because we don't do tournaments that are 4, 5, 6 days. Like the tourni— well, most tournaments that, you know, I play with Craig a lot— 3 is like the most.

00:35:45:11 - 00:35:46:16
Craig Snell
And that usually hurts.

00:35:46:23 - 00:36:06:18
Eric Lombard
Yeah, that's wild. Right? So on this, it's like Tuesday, you know, remember last year in particular, Tuesday we won in extra holes, right? And then you're just, you have this freaking— amped up— just so much energy. Then Wednesday we won a pretty easy match. We won on Wednesday. And now you get to Thursday, and now you're just like, you're so locked in.

00:36:06:18 - 00:36:23:19
Eric Lombard
And in that ho— we lost that match last year on extra holes. There's nothing, there's never been a feeling for me since I played like competitive baseball in like high school and a little bit of college, that that loss on that Thursday on the extra holes, you don't have that feeling. And it's a good feeling— yeah— because it means you care, actually.

00:36:23:19 - 00:36:40:20
Eric Lombard
But losing a match like that on extra holes, you just— honestly, it brings you back, just being a competitor again. You know what I mean? So— like, if I coulda done this one thing different— bringing you back to childhood. And m— match— yes, yes— match play— yes, yes— like, I think why this tournament's so much fun— match play's the best for golf— is because it's match play.

00:36:40:21 - 00:36:59:06
Craig Snell
And a lot of golf tournaments, like, for anybody who's not crazy into golf and you watch golf just on TV when it's on, that's all stroke play. So it's way different. In match play, you can play great, and you can get beat because somebody else— yeah— plays, you know, even better on certain holes in the right time, and it's partners, so it's 2. Like, it's just e— you're almost going just one hole at a time— that's what it is— in match play.

00:36:59:08 - 00:37:03:08
Eric Lombard
It's, it's 18 hole matches, right? So every hole, like, you—

00:37:03:09 - 00:37:05:12
Vernon Miles
That competitive juice is just up and down.

00:37:05:14 - 00:37:28:02
Eric Lombard
So if Brad and I are partners— you can start off bad— and I put it out of bounds, who cares? Because that hole's, that hole's done now, and now the next hole's— move on— a new, it's a new match, the next hole. You could blast 2, 2 out of bounds— doesn't matter— and you just lose the one hole— yep— and you move on to the next hole. Yeah, it's— you know? It kind of keeps you in it a lot more.

00:37:28:02 - 00:37:42:14
Craig Snell
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. You know, whereas like, I played in very few stroke play tournaments, but I played one year in the club championship. And, you know, I was doing okay, and then 5th hole it's like I blasted it out of bounds. I had to re-tee it. Hole's not over. Yep. I blast it out again. Yep.

00:37:42:19 - 00:37:53:04
Craig Snell
Re-tee it again, and I'm like, "Why am I even gonna finish this round? I have no chance of winning now." You know? So it's like, it just takes you out of it completely, where—

00:37:44:14 - 00:37:53:04
Vernon Miles
Cas— points are now I understand a little bit more.

00:37:53:05 - 00:37:57:17
Craig Snell
Match play— yeah— like, if that was the 4ball, whatever. You know, I'm grabbing a drink at the tent while everyone else finishes the hole. I go to 6 and—

00:37:53:05 - 00:37:55:20
Eric Lombard
Rooting for your partner.

00:37:55:24 - 00:37:56:12
Craig Snell
starting all over again.

00:37:56:13 - 00:37:57:17
Eric Lombard
Exactly right. You're locked in.

00:37:55:24 - 00:37:57:05
Vernon Miles
You're like, "Eric, make sure—" it doesn't matter.

00:37:55:24 - 00:37:56:12
Eric Lombard
Make par.

00:37:56:13 - 00:37:57:17
Craig Snell
Yeah. That's what it is.

00:37:57:18 - 00:38:15:03
Craig Snell
That's why, so especially for amateurs who aren't, like, like, super consistent, like the tour guys are, that just, you know, are never gonna hit a ball out of bounds, you can make a mistake, you can mess up, and it doesn't kill your whole day. Yeah. So it's, it's, it's just the best. There, I mean, even the tour, the PGA Tour's been talking about doing more match play events because it's more fun.

00:38:15:04 - 00:38:16:09
Eric Lombard
It's more fun for the viewers as well.

00:38:16:10 - 00:38:16:23
Craig Snell
Yeah, it really is.

00:38:16:23 - 00:38:19:17
Vernon Miles
So— 'cause if you're having a bad day and you're 6 out, like, you're done.

00:38:19:20 - 00:38:35:09
Craig Snell
You, you end up— yeah— going for things or taking shots or going more aggressive that you maybe wouldn't do if you were playing stroke play, where you'd be more conservative. Like, you know, hey, this guy's— you know, if they hit— Eric and I hit the ball on the longer end, so a lot of times the people we're playing against have hit the ball first.

00:38:35:09 - 00:38:51:03
Craig Snell
So you, you watch them, and you're like, "Okay, they're on the green. I gotta go for this a little more aggressive." Or, "Hey, they both hit terrible shots. I just gotta be conservative and get this on the green." You know, and you kind of, you're playing your opponent more on every shot than you are playing, like, just to try to score the best that you could.

00:38:51:03 - 00:38:52:01
Eric Lombard
Absolutely. You know.

00:38:52:02 - 00:38:57:05
Craig Snell
But hopefully, you know, next time we have you on the podcast, you know, one of us is the 4ball champion.

00:38:57:06 - 00:38:57:17
Vernon Miles
Oh, that'd—

00:38:57:18 - 00:38:58:20
Vernon Miles
be awesome. Awesome.

00:38:58:20 - 00:39:12:12
Vernon Miles
So— especially if I bought like a portion of the team. Which if you guys are in there, I will definitely be a part of that because I'm like, "All right, I'll get in everybody I know." I've been lucky. I haven't lost money. Maybe a few dollars, but— yeah, we've done pretty good.

00:39:12:12 - 00:39:15:08
Craig Snell
Yeah. I mean, we've pretty much— as—

00:39:15:08 - 00:39:17:00
Vernon Miles
much as I tease Craig all the time.

00:39:17:06 - 00:39:36:03
Craig Snell
broke close to breaking even, and we've had some good years. But no, honestly though, I mean, with golf, I mean, you know, watching my boys play in those tournaments, it— it's just, it's, it's just awesome, just, 1, seeing your boys compete again. Yeah. Because we don't. I don't, I don't play basketball, football. I don't do any of that stuff anymore. Like, I'm not trying to tear my, you know, every, you know, you know, ligament I have.

00:39:36:04 - 00:39:46:02
Eric Lombard
So it's like, so, you know, I can do this for life. But, you know, what's funny is I have so many of my boys who started playing 5, 6, 7 years ago, and they're like, "Why didn't I do this 20 years ago?"

00:39:46:02 - 00:39:49:20
Vernon Miles
Yeah, I know. I have that feeling. Be my next year into it.

00:39:49:21 - 00:39:51:08
Craig Snell
This'll be my 9th 4ball.

00:39:51:09 - 00:39:52:08
Vernon Miles
That's awesome.

00:39:52:09 - 00:39:52:22
Eric Lombard
No kidding, huh?

00:39:53:02 - 00:39:54:01
Vernon Miles
Do you have to qualify?

00:39:54:02 - 00:39:54:11
Craig Snell
No.

00:39:54:12 - 00:39:55:04
Vernon Miles
What is that?

00:39:55:08 - 00:39:57:08
Vernon Miles
What makes you qualify?

00:39:57:10 - 00:40:05:21
Craig Snell
Like, it's a thing where— oh, that's a very touchy subject. Most of the time it— 'cause I, and listen, I've golfed with, in, in tournaments or just for charity— it's not— I'm not out there playing— it's an invitation. But I've played with you, and you're, you're, you're nasty, right? I mean, I've seen you drive the ball like— yeah.

00:40:08:22 - 00:40:17:14
Craig Snell
Unfortunately, the tournament doesn't, uh, go by just like, who's the best golfer. Like, a scorecard or anything? No, it really goes off of, uh, seniority for the most part— got it— of who's played in it the longest.

00:40:17:17 - 00:40:36:20
Craig Snell
So, like— so you have 9 years. You're probably— yeah, I'm, I'm good— good for, like— the cutoff— oh, he's also in— the cutoff, I think this year was like 2, like, around 2 years if you've played in it for 2 years. I was probably on the cusp. Oh, yeah, yeah. My partner and I were probably on the cusp— you had to be really close— of going a— anyway.

00:40:36:21 - 00:40:51:12
Eric Lombard
Yeah. Like I said though, it is what it is. Like, I'm not, I— that's cool that it's on a seniority, right? So you have these older guys who've played in it for probably 20 years, and your dad's won it. Yeah, so— he didn't win it until he was like older, right? Yeah. He won it twice in the last 9 years.

00:40:51:14 - 00:40:54:07
Vernon Miles
Yeah. Yeah. And he's probably played in it for how many years?

00:40:54:09 - 00:40:55:23
Craig Snell
30-something years.

00:40:56:00 - 00:40:58:10
Vernon Miles
That's wild. So you have to just grind. I mean, you have to last 20 years in a row before you—

00:40:58:11 - 00:41:06:24
Craig Snell
It's the hardest thing to win. I mean, you're playing match play— 4 days— yes— against shots, like. And it's not, it's not really who's the best golfer. Right? It's— Tuesday to Sunday.

00:41:06:24 - 00:41:07:09
Eric Lombard
If you make it to the finals.

00:41:07:09 - 00:41:27:16
Eric Lombard
You're there on Sunday. That's 6, that's 6 rounds of golf. Never mind the, the practice round on Monday. So I mean, you're golfing the entire week, and it's, it's competitive golf too. You know— out with your boys— yeah— just having a cocktail and a— you need a vacation after, huh?— you do. You don't, I don't— last year, the actual— you guys don't look good when you guys come back to work on Monday.

00:41:27:18 - 00:41:49:14
Eric Lombard
No, it's, it's, it's— it's exhausting— brutal, because you're there— you're just tired and sore— you tee off at 11, you're still there at 9:30. Because then you wanna go in the morning and watch some buddies play the satellite. Yeah. There's, like— yeah— when I first started, so the first year I played in it, I had just gotten back into golf. I played golf growing up and in high school, and then I stopped playing golf for a while, and I just got back into it.

00:41:49:16 - 00:42:05:10
Craig Snell
And, uh, I had broken my finger at the fire department, so I was out, so I wasn't able to play in the spring, and I had just started playing golf again. And me and Junior were just gonna play in the satellite, like, just kind of random. And they called us. They didn't have enough teams for the 4ball. Oh, wow. So there used to be, like— golf has gotten so much— oh, god— and there's so many more younger guys, like— there's 20 teams that don't qualify— qualifying.

00:42:05:13 - 00:42:21:10
Craig Snell
There was not a list of— that's insane— well, I mean, for years it was like that. At one point they were letting guest, guest teams into it because there wasn't enough people that had signed up for it. But right now it's like, it's the opposite where it's, it's re— I mean, everybody. And it's such a fun week that everybody wants to be a part of it, you know?

00:42:21:11 - 00:42:29:06
Craig Snell
And even if you're, if you're not in it, it's still fun to be there. But obviously it's, you know, it's different— I'm not even in it— to be in it— and it's awesome. Right? I mean, I can't, I can't be.

00:42:29:06 - 00:42:32:06
Vernon Miles
There on the Tuesday or Wednesday for the most part. But I try to stop in at night.

00:42:32:08 - 00:42:40:13
Craig Snell
Yeah. No, I mean, not, you don't have as many people, you know, going and wa— I mean, Emily comes and watches almost every day. Yeah, she loves it. Yeah, it's awesome. I just like—

00:42:40:15 - 00:42:44:14
Vernon Miles
driving around, seeing my friends hit, and I'm like, "Oh, please win, please win. He's gonna be in such a better mood."

00:42:44:16 - 00:43:01:07
Eric Lombard
Oh, no, you're right though. My, my dad's there 7, you know, ev— my dad's there in the morning— yeah— like I said, family— but it's fun. But it's, yeah, because you, you just get to watch, some of my boys, like, will play tournaments, like, you know, my boy Cecil, for instance. Yeah. I play a scramble with him once or twice a year, and he knows I'm a good golfer, fine.

00:43:01:07 - 00:43:05:04
Eric Lombard
But, when you watch it on a competitive side—

00:43:04:16 - 00:43:05:04
Vernon Miles
And see you on that stage.

00:43:05:21 - 00:43:28:15
Eric Lombard
On that stage where you don't, it's, it's totally different. I'm still having a great time. Yeah. But it's, it's totally different mindset. You're really locked in. You're really focused. You're talking to your partner about strategy on holes. Say, "Listen, hit 3 wood here. I'm gonna hit hybrid here." When you play on the weekends, like when I play with Craig, I don't, I don't care what club he hits. Yeah, no. I don't, I, I don't care. Like, hit whatever club you want. But on the 4ball you have those discussions. You know, you're talking about so much strategy.

00:43:28:16 - 00:43:46:03
Eric Lombard
But, and we'll see. Like I said, I mean, it's, I'm happy now that I have a date for the qualificat— you know, qualifying, um, because now I'll definitely get a few rounds in. So, you know what, I might play 4 or 5 rounds next week, but, um, but— right on average. Right on average. Right on average.

00:43:46:09 - 00:43:46:23
Vernon Miles
On average.

00:43:46:23 - 00:43:48:00
Vernon Miles
Right now on—

00:43:48:00 - 00:43:48:06
Eric Lombard
average.

00:43:48:07 - 00:43:49:22
Vernon Miles
It's just a little above average.

00:43:49:24 - 00:44:03:21
Eric Lombard
For now. But, um, now it's, I have a thing in my head where I know, you know, a few things I've been fortunate enough this year to play some good golf. I know a few things I need to work on. And now I'm gonna bring my partner there, and we're gonna get a couple practice rounds in. And he's gassed.

00:44:03:21 - 00:44:05:23
Eric Lombard
He does not care that we have to qualify neither, why?

00:44:06:00 - 00:44:06:21
Vernon Miles
He probably thinks it's fun.

00:44:06:22 - 00:44:07:07
Eric Lombard
Oh, that's—

00:44:07:07 - 00:44:08:05
Eric Lombard
all.

00:44:08:07 - 00:44:23:10
Eric Lombard
I love. Well, listen, the thing about the qualifying is we don't qualify, we don't get in. We can't get in the 4ball or the satellite. So to me, honestly, the qualifying round is, if not more pressure than the 4ball. Is that— it's right there.

00:44:23:11 - 00:44:23:17
Eric Lombard
I mean.

00:44:23:20 - 00:44:32:00
Eric Lombard
I got, I got one day, you know, my partner and I, we got one day— yeah, that's make it happen— or I'm there, I'm there with flip-flops on— that's more stressful than the tournament— and I'm just driving around watching my buddies play.

00:44:32:02 - 00:44:33:16
Craig Snell
Unless you make it to the weekend.

00:44:33:18 - 00:44:34:02
Eric Lombard
Yes.

00:44:34:03 - 00:44:41:05
Craig Snell
In the championship. And then, yeah, and then you're like, "It's this close." Like. Yeah. It's something everybody wants to win. But all right, my man.

00:44:41:06 - 00:44:42:06
Craig Snell
It was a pleasure, brother.

00:44:42:07 - 00:44:55:09
Eric Lombard
Absolutely, guys. I just wanna say, I appreciate you guys, you know, for everything over the years, and, uh, you guys, this company has changed my life. You guys have changed my life. And, uh, you know, I know I bust your balls, and, and, uh, eventually I'll do that $40, $50 million you guys want.

00:44:55:10 - 00:44:57:13
Vernon Miles
No, settle down. We like you just the way you are.

00:44:57:14 - 00:45:04:20
Eric Lombard
No, no, I know you guys do. But honestly, um, bottom of my heart— that's right— I, I do appreciate you guys, and, uh, and the whole team. And, uh, I wouldn't wanna be anywhere else.

00:45:04:21 - 00:45:05:24
Craig Snell
We appreciate you, my man.

00:45:06:00 - 00:45:06:07
Eric Lombard
Thank you.

00:45:06:07 - 00:45:07:02
Vernon Miles
Thank you. Thank you very much.

00:45:07:04 - 00:45:08:07
Eric Lombard
All right, appreciate you guys.