Kyle Cabral: C2S Energy, From House Flipping to Energy Contracting | Mortgage Daddies

00:00:00:00 – 00:00:06:13
Craig Snell
Welcome back to Mortgage Daddies. Today we have C2S Energy in the house. Kyle Cabral. How you doing, my man?

00:00:06:14 – 00:00:08:12
Kyle Cabral
Good, man. How you doing? – Very good. – Good.

00:00:08:13 – 00:00:11:04
Craig Snell
It’s nice to sit down with you and not have to be beating you up on the golf course

00:00:11:05 – 00:00:14:17
Kyle Cabral
Every time. Ne- ne- never fails. I’m tired of it, actually.

00:00:14:19 – 00:00:15:17
Craig Snell
What are you doing this Friday?

00:00:15:18 – 00:00:19:05
Kyle Cabral
I need to check my schedule. No, I’m done with you. Uh, my budget’s gone for you this year.

00:00:19:07 – 00:00:20:00
Craig Snell
It’s all done.

00:00:20:01 – 00:00:23:03
Vernon Miles
Craig just invites people he beats on the golf course – I should tell him – onto the podcast.

00:00:23:06 – 00:00:31:12
Craig Snell
It’s, it’s a second job.

00:00:31:14 – 00:00:36:06
Vernon Miles
I’m Vernon. I run a top mortgage broker in Massachusetts with over 20 years of experience.

00:00:36:11 – 00:00:46:24
Craig Snell
I’m Craig. I’ve done $100 million consistently since my second full year in the business, and I’m Massachusetts’ top mortgage broker. We’re the Mortgage Daddies, with real advice, real stories, and real results.

00:00:47:01 – 00:00:48:04
Vernon Miles
Let’s get going.

00:00:48:05 – 00:01:04:17
Craig Snell
My man, your story is pretty crazy. You’re probably, uh- You, you had partnered with Tony. – Yep. – So I went to, uh- I was a little younger than you guys, but Tony and I played baseball together growing up and stuff, so I’ve known Tony a, a while. And what you guys have built and done over a pretty short period of time – mm-hmm – is pretty impressive.

00:01:04:19 – 00:01:08:08
Craig Snell
Yep. How’d you get into all this, and what exactly do you do, so everybody can kinda-

00:01:08:10 – 00:01:32:24
Kyle Cabral
Yeah. So right now I am co-founder of C2S Energy, uh, on Church Street. Um, we have about 60 employees. We’re a Mass Save partner. We do, um, a lot of stuff. Basically any thermal, thermal work, so energy efficiency work. So thermal envelope, when I say that, roof, siding, windows, HVAC, uh, code compliance like HERS rating stuff. That I know is getting bi- big in the, the building code, um, world.

00:01:33:01 – 00:01:46:07
Kyle Cabral
Uh, so anything residential, commercial s- uh, side of things. So we’re essentially e- experts in Mass Save, um, but we’re definitely, uh, growing to include all of the services right now. So yeah, that’s primarily what we do now.

00:01:46:08 – 00:01:55:18
Craig Snell
How’d you guys get into that? ‘Cause you guys were more in the- Like, when I first started talking to you guys, you guys were more in, like, the investing, real estate, flips – mm-hmm – stuff like that, portfolio.

00:01:55:24 – 00:02:15:20
Kyle Cabral
Yeah. So, like, um, 2000- I think it was 2017. I worked at Meditech. I was kind of like, um, I was a programmer, very tech oriented. Um, did a lot of stuff there, and I was, like a lot of other people, like, not really fulfilled. Like, basically competitive. Um, try to be the best at, at, I can be, uh, for everything I do.

00:02:15:22 – 00:02:34:05
Kyle Cabral
Um, and then with the whole corporate raises, the, it work for me. Um, so I was randomly texting Tony, um, like, “Hey, you ever thought about real estate?” So I know, I saw the whole f- flipping houses, stuff like that. Like, how do I, how do I go about doing that? So fast-forward, long story short is, um, we started doing that.

00:02:34:09 – 00:02:55:02
Kyle Cabral
Uh, we flipped, uh, pi- I think it was over 100, 120 houses, and we picked, we bought 130 rental units over, I think, a 2 to 3-year span. Um, very aggressive. Um, then COVID hit, and then that translated into hedging against that. Um, like, how can we be responsible? And Tony used to work for Mass Save and used to work, um-

00:02:55:04 – 00:02:55:16
Craig Snell
Oh, he did?

00:02:55:17 – 00:03:16:17
Kyle Cabral
Yeah. So he used to work as, um, a laborer, a crew chief. Um, and then he kinda talked, uh, talked to me about that. And we had a third partner at the time, and we discussed it, um, and decided to kinda hit the ground running. And we opened up C2S Energy in, I think, March 21st of ’19. But we were real estate, we didn’t really start it until 2022.

00:03:16:19 – 00:03:17:20
Kyle Cabral
So-

00:03:17:22 – 00:03:18:16
Craig Snell
That’s awesome.

00:03:18:17 – 00:03:21:08
Vernon Miles
March 21st of ’19? – Yeah, yeah. – You guys opened up –

00:03:21:10 – 00:03:22:08
Kyle Cabral
2019, yeah.

00:03:22:11 – 00:03:24:05
Vernon Miles
Then COVID hit literally a year later.

00:03:24:06 – 00:03:47:07
Kyle Cabral
Yeah. So- That’s right when we started. Yeah. So- Sorry, March 5th. – March 5th. – Yeah. Um, yeah. So it was really slow. We were really more focused on the real estate stuff first. So we- Our big aspirations and goals were to kinda do syndication, like syndicate, to go raise capital, to go build, um, 200, 300, 400 unit buildings out of state.

00:03:47:09 – 00:04:08:13
Kyle Cabral
Um, we started in state, kinda got our feet wet, learned the development world. We actually put in a hun- um, an offer for a mobile home park in Ludlow. That was, like, 100 stalls. Um, Massachusetts, that’s not what you wanna do now, um, so we pulled out of that. Um, but it was all the idea of adding value to real estate by increasing the net operating income, obviously.

00:04:08:15 – 00:04:28:13
Kyle Cabral
Um, and again, we got a third partner involved, and then that was our vision, that was our goal. And that randomly happened. We just shifted into C2S Energy. We still, we still consider ourselves developers, and that’s our passion. Um, and likely gonna get back to that at some point. Um, but now, energy, C2S Energy’s from 2022 till now has really been our primary focus.

00:04:28:14 – 00:04:32:12
Craig Snell
Yeah, you guys have blown up. I mean, what’d you guys start with? Just you and Tony and a couple of people?

00:04:32:18 – 00:04:52:02
Kyle Cabral
Yeah. So it was me, me, Tony, and another partner named Mike. Um, and then we had a couple high school friends start with us. So, like, uh, just a couple laborers, um, 2 or 3. So we had probably a team of 6, including me and Tony, uh, and Mike. Um, and then we had that, we had about less than 10 employees until 2022.

00:04:52:07 – 00:05:00:05
Craig Snell
Do you get them- Do you get people that contact you guys directly, or is it more people that contact Mass Save, and then they get assigned to you?

00:05:00:07 – 00:05:25:09
Kyle Cabral
Uh, great question. Um, so we, until this day, is most, it’s the latter. Generally speaking, uh, we’re part of program work. So, like, program work, there’s, it kind of gets complicated with the Mass Save inf- infrastructure. You have the residential side, you have the commercial industrial side, um, and you have mar- what’s called market rate customers, and then you have low income customers. So they’re all comes from a different pool of money.

00:05:25:11 – 00:05:45:08
Kyle Cabral
Um, so we, uh, we are the one-stop shop. We understand all of it. Um, where irregardless of where you are, as long as you get your service provided by Eversource, National Grid, um, Cape Light Compact, there’s something for you, and we kind of navigate that stuff. So we are, for example, Citizens for Citizens is the low income rep in, in our area, right?

00:05:45:09 – 00:06:07:13
Kyle Cabral
So if you want to get assistance on your utility bills, you go to them. Um, if you want to potentially see if you can get a heat pump system for free, you go to them. Uh, and they have a contractor network, and basically we signed up with them, and we just annoy them forever. And we’re just like, “Hey, we’re contractors. We get-” And like, it was obnoxiously, like, every week, “Hey, hey, I want to get involved. Can you send us some work orders?”

00:06:07:16 – 00:06:31:02
Kyle Cabral
And what happens there is as, as long as you can, they trust you and you do a good job, and they can rely on you, ’cause they have the quotas to meet, um, and they have their install timelines, and they’re, they’re basically at the, at the I guess in terms of the s- the state, they have rules basically instituted by the state that they have to follow. But when they have a good contract that understands all that, that’s relatively young and has systems, then they’ll just keep feeding you.

00:06:31:02 – 00:06:54:07
Kyle Cabral
So it’s relationship driven, and now you have CFC, then you have SelfHelp, which Lavallette, um, I know we, um, we coached Jason Lavallette and he, he helps with DYA. He works with them. They’re more in the Brockton area. South Shore Community Action in the Cape. Um, uh, QCAP, which is Quincy. We’re part of all these programs and we come out and saying, “Hey, whatever you need from us, we’ll do it. Prioritiz- prioritize you guys.”

00:06:54:09 – 00:07:06:05
Kyle Cabral
And, um, we over-communicated it now has built the trust and we just essentially just get fed, um, a lot of times. Um, but we have to maintain the trust now as we get bigger ’cause that’s a, a growing pain right now.

00:07:06:07 – 00:07:18:06
Craig Snell
Mm-hmm. Yeah, it’s always difficult – yeah – as you start getting a little less involved personally and having other people and project managers and different people working for you, it becomes definitely different headaches. I completely agree.

00:07:18:08 – 00:07:21:08
Vernon Miles
Management is not, not what it’s cut out to be. It’s hard.

00:07:21:12 – 00:07:21:20
Kyle Cabral
Yeah.

00:07:21:21 – 00:07:32:11
Craig Snell
Yeah. So- What- – Go ahead. – Uh, w- what’s the goal that you guys have? Are you guys looking to expand into other parts of Mass? Are you in all- You guys are in Worcester – mm-hmm – everything now, right? You’re not just around here.

00:07:32:12 – 00:07:53:24
Kyle Cabral
Yeah, so we, um, we now- We’ve taken, to me, me and Tony personally have taken C2S as far as we can, uh, I would say in terms of just share wit and like share grit and share like just tenacity. Um, and now our goal is to definitely, um, have a high revenue target and we know how do we do that.

00:07:53:24 – 00:08:11:01
Kyle Cabral
We obviously have to delegate to your point. It’s like how do you create these, solve these new problems? Like the reason why we got to a certain spot is like they can call me and Tony Sunday, Saturday, 8 o’clock, 9 o’clock, 10, it doesn’t matter, and we’d provide that experience. So now knowing how to grow is we have to kind of delegate that and have that same faith in our staff.

00:08:11:04 – 00:08:34:08
Kyle Cabral
So that is what we’re trying to figure out. Um, but goal right now is we’re acquiring a building in Western Massachusetts. We do statewide work. Um, whether you want a heat pump install in Springfield, you want a three hours away, we have guys driving literally 2 hours back and forth every single day. Um, and we have a good group of guys, um, that forever have, they’re loyal to us and we treat them right

00:08:34:08 – 00:08:50:10
Kyle Cabral
and they love, they love what they do. Um, and they’ll, they’ll do that. Uh, so right now we have to unders- we have to understand that we wanna try to make it a point to get that building, warehouse space, apartment space, um, and get a shop set up out there right now. So that’s our main target for honestly the end of this year.

00:08:50:15 – 00:09:07:00
Craig Snell
How do you keep the culture side up, like keeping these people happy? Obviously like, you know, with, especially on the contracting side, I feel like it’s always difficult because people learn what you do, they learn the business, and then either they think they can do it themselves or they wanna go out and, you know, start their own thing or go chase money somewhere else.

00:09:07:00 – 00:09:19:03
Craig Snell
How do you keep the culture? How do you keep these people? Because you’ve had a lot of the same people working for you since the beginning, and a lot of them are friends and family and stuff like that, which I think can also be difficult to keep that balance.

00:09:19:08 – 00:09:40:21
Kyle Cabral
Yeah, no, that’s, that’s a great question. I think it’s so important. I think it’s something that people and business owners need to like really like, uh, like epitomize and they really have to like really feel that. Um, in terms of the culture building is treat people with respect and just do what you’re gonna say and say what you’re gonna do and, and, and be very, very transparent.

00:09:40:21 – 00:09:56:14
Kyle Cabral
And don’t be afraid to like just throw nuggets here. Like yesterday out on a whim, I just brought one of my guys that’s been running our heat pump team on, “All right, hey, 11 o’clock we have a tee time. Come on, let’s go.” Like just off a whim and like, and we do that a lot. Like and we’ll do that

00:09:56:14 – 00:10:21:24
Kyle Cabral
and we’re not micromanagey. Like I understand a lot of culture, like cultures and businesses have like our 9 to 5, 8 to 4, 8 to 4:30. We’re very results driven. Like and we is as long as you’re doing what is I guess asked of you, whether you do it in a 4-hour timeframe, 6-hour timeframe, and obviously everyone’s different. But if you get the desired result, you can kinda do what you want in a sense is like the outcome is all we’re of reaching for however you got there.

00:10:22:00 – 00:10:41:21
Kyle Cabral
So that helps the culture, uh, a lot and then we do have events all the time. So we take out 16 guys randomly to go, again, golfing. We’ll have a fun like scramble match. We do that multiple times a year. So we probably overdo it at some point, but at the same time we don’t, ’cause it’s hard for someone to say, “Hey, I have a better option somewhere else.”

00:10:41:23 – 00:10:58:06
Kyle Cabral
Um, and we really believe that. And again, so the, the, the family thing, um, one of my big passions are like how do you get people around you to come and, and, and share your same vision? But most importantly is like how can I provide them a great life? So for example, like I have my brother-in-law with me.

00:10:58:07 – 00:11:17:23
Kyle Cabral
He’s worked for me. He’s developed from a kid that didn’t know much about like finance. So he, he graduated with a finance degree, but wasn’t like- You know how everyone does that, right? – Mm-hmm. – Like whatever, business administration. But I’ve developed- He’s developed alongside us, um, and now he’s a, the controller for our company. And it was through just like trust and like, “Hey, you have tenacity. It’s gonna take you time to get there. You got there.”

00:11:17:23 – 00:11:35:23
Kyle Cabral
Um, and he’s, he’s the same guy that used to run 6 auctions. We’d buy a house at auction, so we used to pay him to go, go to Brewster just to go sit there for 5 minutes to lose an auction and drive back. So, so that was my brother-in-law. And then, um, so Marco, who’s, uh, married to my wife’s sister, he’s our engineer.

00:11:35:24 – 00:11:55:00
Kyle Cabral
Again, brought him in there. A lot of trust, a lot of barren source, known him forever. Um, it’s basically friends of friends that really look at us as guys that like I can trust and I wanna work for. So, and when- whenever we can bring someone in that is from our environment and what we look at as family, I think it’s super powerful for any business.

00:11:55:04 – 00:12:05:06
Kyle Cabral
So I look at these guys as we grow, like 100, 200, 300 people, hopefully, is they’re kinda gonna be the ones steering the machine. Um, and then we always are very communicative about that,

00:12:05:06 – 00:12:07:11
Craig Snell
That’s awesome.

00:12:07:13 – 00:12:22:23
Vernon Miles
Yeah, delegating, done. Getting everybody on the same page, that’s, that’s, that’s been the hardest part over the last like 6 to 12 months for, for us owning our business, and you guys are going through that same thing. But yeah, the, um, building the team and having everybody on the same page, that’s like the hardest thing.

00:12:22:23 – 00:12:29:06
Vernon Miles
You guys have obviously, it sounds like you guys mastered that. Hiring everybody that you know, that’s, that’s tricky.

00:12:29:07 – 00:12:30:00
Kyle Cabral
Very tricky.

00:12:30:01 – 00:12:32:11
Vernon Miles
Especially family members. – Very tricky. – I just went through that.

00:12:32:17 – 00:12:55:18
Kyle Cabral
Yeah. Um, yeah, we’ve had our experiences with that, um, some good, some bad. And when I say bad, I don’t really consider any experience bad, it’s just a learning situation. – Yeah. – Um, cl- definitely a glass half full guy. Um, there’s nothing we can’t do or can’t learn, and especially in the family realm. Because it’s, it’s so- ‘Cause your heart says, “Hey, I want-”

00:12:55:20 – 00:13:00:21
Kyle Cabral
It’s almost like you want to want something for someone, and you can’t force it to happen on that p- person.

00:13:01:02 – 00:13:02:05
Vernon Miles
You want it more than they want it.

00:13:02:05 – 00:13:27:11
Kyle Cabral
You do sometimes want it more than them. Um, but it’s on you to take the risk and at least give them the opportunity and see what runs with it. Um, but at least do that, and a lot of times they see that. And at the end of the day, sometimes it’s not a fit. But again, as long as you have cultural- As long as you have foundational respect, even when it goes sideways, it doesn’t go as bad as you would think, as long as you, everyone has, feels like moralis- moralistically that you’re a good human at the end of the day.

00:13:27:22 – 00:13:41:13
Craig Snell
They either have it or they don’t. I mean, the people that you bring in, you give that chance to, if they put that work in and they thrive – yeah – and they show you, like- you, there’s gonna be ample opportunity for them.

00:13:41:13 – 00:13:59:16
Craig Snell
But the other people that come in and they’re like, think it’s handed to you, and it’s like, all right, well, this is gonna be an uncomfortable conversation when – yeah – I gotta let you go because you just come here and pretty much take advantage of us and – exactly – you know, that’s, that’s tough to, to deal with. And we’ve dealt with stuff like that. And I feel like, you know, you and I have sat and talked for many hours after golf rounds and stuff about the business side of things,

00:13:59:16 – 00:14:16:05
Craig Snell
and I feel like our, our situation’s obviously a different type of business – but we’ve run things very similar. Like we don’t punch clocks here. It’s more of, you get the job – “Hey, you wanna leave early? Go ahead.” Or – yeah – at the same time, if they’re busy and they’re, they’re here till 7:00, they’re here till 7:00 ’cause they gotta get the job done.

00:14:16:06 – 00:14:30:24
Craig Snell
And the culture side, we do a lot of that as well. But on the, you know, the kind of the head, like the 2-headed monster that you guys have with you and Tony is similar to kinda what we have, yin and yang. Vern and I are very different, but yet we work very well together. You and Tony are very different. – Mm-hmm.

00:14:31:01 – 00:14:32:17
Craig Snell
How does that work well for you guys?

00:14:32:18 – 00:14:42:05
Kyle Cabral
Yeah, so like, um, it’s funny. Like again, partnerships are interesting. So we had 3 partners. Like, like you said, we had 3 partners. It went down to 2. That was a, a mutual-

00:14:42:07 – 00:14:42:20
Craig Snell
Three’s weird. You stay with 2.

00:14:42:21 – 00:14:43:10
Kyle Cabral
Yeah.

00:14:44:16 – 00:14:49:18
Vernon Miles
Yeah, three’s weird. Yeah, yeah. Right? You’re, you have that odd, odd guy out. You’re like, “Yeah, we don’t agree with you. You’re gonna have to go.”

00:14:49:20 – 00:15:06:02
Kyle Cabral
Right. Right. Um, but it came back to the idea of like how does it work? Like it’s a, it’s a, it’s a deeper question. It’s just foundational. Like I always go back to do you have respect and do you know the person, point-blank period. And once you have that solidified, it makes everything so much easier. So I don’t look at Tony as a friend, I look at him as a brother, right?

00:15:06:02 – 00:15:21:24
Kyle Cabral
So it’s like, you al- always go through life, so you have some best friends when you’re 15, when you’re 20, when you’re 30. Things adjust. You couldn’t get rid of me if you tried. Like that’s the differentiating factor to me. Um, and then to, and recognizing our personalities. He understands me better, almost better than I understand myself,

00:15:21:24 – 00:15:40:00
Kyle Cabral
and vice versa. So now we’re both ultra-competitive. Like how do we do make the right decisions together? And like if this was, was a test, and we, again, both of us knowing that we wanna be the best we can be, what are you good at and what are you good at to optimize? And wait, w- when we’re looking at the same thing,

00:15:40:01 – 00:16:03:00
Kyle Cabral
should we be looking at the same thing? It makes no sense, ’cause I trust you, you trust me, right? And we develop that trust. So how our business works is we are essentially co-CEOs with different, um- With different avenues. So like today he’s holding an operations meeting. He’s more production, field, labor, uh, production when the, the, the work comes in and maintaining that quality. Um, makes all the decisions in terms of like f- vehicle fleet, all that stuff.

00:16:03:01 – 00:16:26:20
Kyle Cabral
I’m more tech. Like how, how can I bring the world of AI into an industry that doesn’t have that? And it’s far more than like the Claude or the Open AI or ChatGPT. Um, and we’re really making a, a great progress on that. So anything tech-related, sales-related, finance-related, accounting, anything that’s creative. Like we’ve, we’ve talked about earlier potentially acquiring a multifamily buil- uh, business to maybe offset taxes through using creative strategy.

00:16:26:20 – 00:16:42:14
Kyle Cabral
That’s what I’m really good at. So we don’t really- We’ll talk about it, we’ll give us an update on it, but it’s never like, “Hey, have you thought about it this way?” Or, “What do you think about this? I don’t think you’re doing it right.” We just have unbeknownst trust. Like that’s it. And it’s worked well, obviously. It was since 2017, and I still love hanging out with him every single day.

00:16:42:14 – 00:16:57:11
Kyle Cabral
We’ll golf all the time together. We’re literally buying houses in Florida next door to each other. Our fri- our kids are like best friends. Uh, our wives are really close to each other, so it, it just worked. So that’s how we kind of separate and what we do in the business a little bit, I guess differently.

00:16:57:17 – 00:17:10:08
Craig Snell
Yeah, that works well for sure. Now you guys obviously kind of dominating Massachusetts at this point. Are you guys looking to take this kind of business model, and is there opportunity for these type of programs in other states at this point?

00:17:10:10 – 00:17:28:11
Kyle Cabral
Yeah. Yeah. So like we are gonna go out west, uh, to try to capture more of that market. Um, the, the hiring of labor is not a, a difficult thing for us. Uh, it goes back to professional talent, like higher level management that, that can sit in the culture with us and I can trust and do that. That’s a harder part

00:17:28:12 – 00:17:53:10
Kyle Cabral
and I refuse to grow too quickly to not have that grow in unison. Um, but to answer your question, yeah, we’ve been approached. Uh, the- And Connecticut is the market for Eversource, right? So they have a very similar program, um, that they’re essentially copying Massachusetts model. Um, so going to Connecticut is a, is a big opportunity for us. So they have the low income model where, hey, not like fossil fuel based systems, right?

00:17:53:10 – 00:18:17:07
Kyle Cabral
So you have oil, propane, electric resistance heat. The state really, really wants to decarbonize, so they’re really putting in this bucket of money, “Hey, if you have this and you have this income level, I will literally fund your, your air source heat pump project. $20,000, $30,000, no cost to you.” Um, and it comes out of this a pool of money ’cause the state’s ultra, ultra aggressive with that right now.

00:18:17:09 – 00:18:37:08
Kyle Cabral
Um, and they’re gonna be. So, uh, it’s more of, um, not a gas to electric conversion, it’s more of anything else to, uh, electric conversion. Connecticut’s copying that. Uh, so they’ve been appro- they’ve been approached, “Hey, can you guys get staff down to Connecticut, labor down to Connecticut if we have this big building that you guys wanna do?” And of course we said yeah, so we’re most likely gonna go there in the next year, 18 months.

00:18:37:10 – 00:18:39:02
Craig Snell
That’s a good jump. Not too, too far.

00:18:39:04 – 00:18:40:03
Kyle Cabral
Yeah.

00:18:40:05 – 00:18:43:21
Vernon Miles
That’s the- That’s still the distance. Yeah, but – with that many employees –

00:18:43:21 – 00:18:46:19
Craig Snell
We were, you were talking somewhere else too. With Delaware or somewhere? – Yeah. – Was that?

00:18:46:20 – 00:18:48:15
Kyle Cabral
Yeah. Delaware’s another option. Very similar.

00:18:48:16 – 00:18:50:11
Craig Snell
That’s a little different. But – Connecticut you can drive.

00:18:50:13 – 00:19:00:16
Vernon Miles
What is your- W- who is your other clients other than the ones that the states are providing these different programs? Like I’m sitting here and I’m like, “I don’t have any of these things at my house. Like how do I get in on this or heat pumps or anything like that?”

00:19:00:19 – 00:19:18:16
Kyle Cabral
Anyone. So like literally anyone in this room. If you’re an Eversource National Grid client, y- like it’s amazing what’s out there and people don’t know. Um, so Vern, depending on who’s on your utility bills. Is it just you? Is it not just you? Depends on your rate code.

00:19:18:16 – 00:19:28:03
Kyle Cabral
Uh, at a bare minimum, like if, let’s say, and again, your housing situation. Are you in a 2-family, 3-family, single family? Is your single family 700 square feet? Is it 1,300 square? Is it 3,000? Uh, all this matters in terms of figuring out like-

00:19:28:03 – 00:19:29:02
Craig Snell
Program you fit into.

00:19:29:06 – 00:19:51:17
Kyle Cabral
Yeah. Which program, but like is it worth, is it worth the dollars? Like oh, your needs. Do you want the air conditioning? Do you not want the air conditioning? We’ve installed prior to- We’ve installed heat pumps this year where it was, um, 8, 900 square foot house and, uh, it was oil, electric resistance. Income hit the re- requirement and it gets, again, complicated. Like New, New Bedford is technically a designated equity community,

00:19:51:20 – 00:20:02:12
Kyle Cabral
so everyone’s considered, um, m- um, um, basically, uh, lower income, um, moderate income I should say. Um, so they get privy to a $16,000 rebate. So a lot of times-

00:20:02:12 – 00:20:05:10
Vernon Miles
No matter how much you make in the city of New Bedford, the whole city is-

00:20:05:12 – 00:20:25:00
Kyle Cabral
Yes, exactly. And, uh, and again, not gas to electric, but generally oil or whatever to electric. Um, there are times that they pay nothing out of pocket. They maybe pay a grand out of pocket. And we cover- And that’s our competitive advantage to other companies. We cover the rebate. So we’ve mastered-

00:20:25:00 – 00:20:42:02
Kyle Cabral
So it was a horrendous experience the first- like, 12 to 18 months, but I saw a light at the tu- uh, at the end of the tunnel. Um, where, like, all right, you got a $17,000 quote minus 16, 1000. Our equipment’s half the cost, more than half the cost of the install. And you gotta pay the guys. So we’re flowing that. – Yeah. – And then I have to figure out the whole Mass Save system where I have to go chase that rebate, and I have to trust that they’re gonna give it to me, but then they have the QC process.

00:20:42:02 – 00:20:56:13
Kyle Cabral
They have their red tape. I’m like, “Okay, this isn’t-” I know most contractors are not gonna wanna deal with this bullshit, so, like, how do I master this and figure it out for the money? Most places don’t.

00:20:56:13 – 00:20:58:11
Craig Snell
They would make them pay it and then get your own rebate.

00:20:58:12 – 00:21:17:06
Kyle Cabral
A lot of people tried, but then they realized they lost tens of thousands of dollars because we lost, honestly, um, well over a quarter million dollars and just lost money through a rebate process, but that’s the cost of being competitive – figure it out – and that’s the cost of the competitive advantage. Now we have a, we have a VA team that just works on it.

00:21:17:06 – 00:21:29:07
Kyle Cabral
They are so punctual. We have systems that make sure prior to it getting to our production system, like, cross T’s, dot I’s. So now it took us that long, but now it’s a very, very good marketing tool.

00:21:29:09 – 00:21:46:08
Craig Snell
That’s a huge – yeah – difference between most companies. I feel like nobody has- I mean, you guys have done work for me on my old house, my new house, and uh, the process is so easy. – Right. – To say, “Here’s a contract. This is what it’s gonna cost.” The rebate stuff, sign a paper. Like, they didn’t have to do anything on it. – Right.

00:21:46:13 – 00:22:04:00
Craig Snell
And I think what I was gonna ask earlier, we, we kinda got off topic, but people don’t have to contact Mass Save – no – to figure out their options. – No. – They can contact you guys directly. – Yep. – You have access to all the programs to figure out what fits. It’s just like on our side. Like, when someone says, “Oh, what program am I gonna qualify for?”

00:22:04:00 – 00:22:12:06
Craig Snell
Well, you gotta look at your situation, your income – yep – your assets, where do you live, how m- uh, you know, how many people live in your house to fit you into these programs. Yours, yours is the same side.

00:22:12:07 – 00:22:29:01
Kyle Cabral
Same exact thing. And, like, it, the, the opportunity is so wild, and it hurts me a lot because, like- And I have to understand, like, you can’t do everything, but there’s so much value, and the state needs a lot of these things to happen, and it’s just like the messaging’s the most important thing. So right now you see a, a billboard, Mass Save, blah, blah, blah, call this number.

00:22:29:01 – 00:22:32:10
Kyle Cabral
What does that mean? Like, it’s like, and then you get lost in the loop of-

00:22:32:13 – 00:22:35:11
Vernon Miles
And who’s it for? Right? Like, I, I, I’m still sitting here – and I don’t even know who it’s for still. I, I don’t know. I’ve learned more here – I’m like –

00:22:35:14 – 00:22:52:24
Craig Snell
I feel like there was like a- there was like a- at least, like, my- my opinion, like, in the beginning when it all came out, like, everyone was talking about it like, “Oh, you can have them come and they’ll insulate your attic. They’ll, you know, spray foam your joists in the ba- – yeah – whatever it is.” – Yep. – And, and then it kinda like died off – mm-hmm – and you don’t really hear about it as much, like where there was that big initial push. – Yeah. – But there’s a lot of money that people could save.

00:22:53:05 – 00:22:53:22
Kyle Cabral
There’s more than ever.

00:22:54:00 – 00:23:20:04
Craig Snell
I remember when you guys did my old house, the insulation side of it, I had oil in my old house, and I was going through, like, a tank of oil every month in the winter. – Yeah. – Once they insulated the attic more, all the other stuff that you would insulate, the doors and whatever, my- I went from that oil tank lasting me one month to that oil tank lasting me 2 to two and a half months. – Yeah. – That’s crazy. – Which for me at the time when I was a firefighter, $600 to fill my oil tank was, like-

00:23:20:04 – 00:23:24:11
Craig Snell
And I paid n- next to nothing to have all that work done.

00:23:24:12 – 00:23:26:03
Kyle Cabral
Exactly. – Yeah.

00:23:26:06 – 00:23:28:24
Vernon Miles
So I have oil. What are we gonna do here? I need to get some insulation.

00:23:29:01 – 00:23:51:10
Kyle Cabral
It, it’s funny because, uh, it, it- There’s- Because of that variable, and I, I look at everything, there are significant options for you most likely, but you wouldn’t know that. Like, unles- unless you knew that this existed. So our big, again, our, our play here is all we just wanna educate people. So you- – Yeah. – And I’m sure, I’m sure people see on, uh, [inaudible] guide, powered by C2S, it’s more of awareness.

00:23:51:11 – 00:24:17:15
Kyle Cabral
Like, “Hey, we exist. Look at our website, ask questions, and we’ll figure it out.” But, like, for example, no one know this, but, like, nonprofit organizations, right? There’s such a push for nonprofit. A lot of older buildings, churches, everything, no cost. 0. Literally 0. And, um, and, and they can get, again, heat pumps, they can get insulation. The single greatest thing anyone can do to their business or their home is air sealing a house and insulating a, a business or a house,

00:24:17:15 – 00:24:30:01
Kyle Cabral
and that’s a 20, 30% reduction in probably next month’s utility bill. No one really knows that. But the opportunity for these nonprofits and commercial is insane, and just no one’s attacking it, so that’s one area we’re gonna probably be pushing next year.

00:24:30:02 – 00:24:32:11
Vernon Miles
The nonprofit would have to own the building?

00:24:32:13 – 00:24:37:02
Kyle Cabral
Uh, n- no. They, they can reside in the building. They can be a, a tenant. – A tenant. – Oh, wow. – They can be a tenant.

00:24:37:04 – 00:24:49:05
Vernon Miles
So – that’s crazy. Where does somebody go? Like, do you have a website where they go pop in all their information? Does it tech- I know you’re the tech guy. Does it say, “Hey, listen, you’re eligible for X, Y, and Z. Contact us here. Leave the info”?

00:24:49:07 – 00:25:06:19
Kyle Cabral
A great question. Um, our website does have, like, a, like, a nonprofit stuff, at least an educating piece – yeah – a form to submit out, submit. But in terms of the logisticals, because this, this input, there’s so many variables, so I look at that as a friction point. It’s like if you ask too many questions on a form submittal, it could create friction,

00:25:06:20 – 00:25:29:19
Kyle Cabral
and it’s like, “Oh, forget this. It’s not worth it.” – Yeah. – So I, I rather- This is what I’m really looking to really hone in on soon is that the person with Mass Save experience that we’ve cultured, that we’ve- that have grown with us through our culture, staying with us, really learning the ins and outs of Mass Save, ’cause it takes time, and leveraging that to be that person that speaks to someone on the phone, like, essentially the consultant of us that can really pinpoint exactly where you belong.

00:25:29:20 – 00:25:33:19
Kyle Cabral
That’s one of the harder things. There’s so many avenues, and it takes time to learn that.

00:25:33:19 – 00:25:36:11
Vernon Miles
So – how does somebody contact C2S, though?

00:25:36:13 – 00:25:53:09
Kyle Cabral
So C2S, they can fill out a form on our website – yep – or they can just give us a call, and it’s, um- And you can Google us. – C2S Energy. – Yeah, c2senergy.com or, um, again, our phone number’s right on there, 774-961-6810. Um, and someone will pick up and educate you on whatever you need to be educated on.

00:25:53:09 – 00:25:59:09
Vernon Miles
So – I’m definitely calling. I don’t think I’ve ever looked at insulating my- – It made a crazy- – My-

00:25:59:09 – 00:26:02:01
Craig Snell
Difference in my h- my life

00:26:02:03 – 00:26:03:03
Vernon Miles
My roof inside that attic.

00:26:03:04 – 00:26:05:22
Craig Snell
It was insane. Like I’m going through oil-

00:26:05:24 – 00:26:06:17
Vernon Miles
Can I get rid of my house?

00:26:06:19 – 00:26:22:13
Craig Snell
I was going through oil like a tank a month, and then it went to at least double – yeah – the time that I was getting out of it. And obviously, like, I mean, the percentage has gotta be relevant – yeah – to what you actually have there, and my house was on the older side, so it definitely had a huge impact on what it was.

00:26:22:15 – 00:26:34:02
Craig Snell
Yeah. But, you know, you just don’t know. I mean – right – I just knew because people were talking about, you know, Mass Save, and then they- trying to save any dollar you can when you f- buy your first house. It’s like, “If I can save some money on my electric bill-”

00:26:34:05 – 00:26:48:00
Vernon Miles
You know, I called Mass Save, and they come out, and they just like change my light bulbs into like- these crazy light bulbs. – Yeah. – And then like I come home from work, and I’m like, “Why did you let them put these light bulbs in? It’s like dark in your house. I’m gonna like get rid of all these light bulbs.” – Yeah, yeah. – “They’re all nasty and gross. I’m gonna like get rid of all these-”

00:26:48:01 – 00:27:02:07
Vernon Miles
But, uh, that’s what I honestly thought Mass Save was – that’s so funny – up until this point. And I know some people are like- Like you hear about the insulation, you hear that all the time, but then I’m like, “Who’s this for?” – Right. – ‘Cause then you hear Mass Save, and then you hear low to moderate income. You’re like, “I’m probably gonna be over this. This probably doesn’t help.”

00:27:02:09 – 00:27:13:21
Vernon Miles
But even if somebody’s just watching this, they just wanna get their house looked at by you guys, you guys go out there, do a whole analysis, it sounds like, on the house, see what it qualifies for, what it needs. That’s a huge, that’s a huge point for you guys.

00:27:13:22 – 00:27:32:09
Kyle Cabral
Yeah, I mean, like, and everyone’s been complaining about these- obviously the electric rates, right? Um, but at the end of the day, they have a plan. It’s written in the, um, it’s written, basically the law, um, where there was a 2035 plan to try to get to net 0, which is not gonna happen. But there’s no if, ands, or buts. This is- They’re not stopping.

00:27:32:10 – 00:27:50:07
Kyle Cabral
Massachusetts is basically copying California, and they wanna get the, basic- the greenhouse gas emissions as low as possible. You can go to masssavedata.org and look at all these stats. Um, but if, if anything, it’s gonna get more aggressive. So where does the money come from? You as a ratepayer, you have an energy efficiency surcharge at the bottom of your bill.

00:27:50:09 – 00:28:12:10
Kyle Cabral
That gets put into a pool of money. That pool of money is now used to fund the state’s objectives. What is the state’s objectives? Before, it was energy efficiency, right? It would be like, “Oh, your 86% gas boiler, uh, uh, gas furnace, I’m going to now switch this to a 95% high efficiency,” those sa- saving those therms. Um, that has now switched to now decarbonization effort.

00:28:12:10 – 00:28:27:01
Kyle Cabral
They want you to go on the grid, and they want you electric. Then they want the solar power, uh, the solar panels. And this is, as much as we see in the media about, oh, they’re coming back, the rates of doing this, this is full steam ahead. It’s not gonna stop. And, um, for example, building codes. So one of the other things we do is the energy code compliance. So it’s called HERS rating.

00:28:27:01 – 00:28:50:16
Kyle Cabral
So if Vern wants to build a house tomorrow or, or Craig wants to build a house tomorrow, it’s law now, it’s called a stretch code community, where you have to have a HERS rater basically m- give your, uh, property, uh, a scorecard, like a, a report card basically. – Yeah. – Uh, so we’d work with Ron a lot on a lot of his properties. We’re like a bunch of people, um, where we give that scorecard, and there’s ma- there’s incentives for that.

00:28:50:16 – 00:29:06:16
Kyle Cabral
So like you can get a $20,000 rebate. So your furnace comes in, you’re gonna go get a, a gas furnace for your new construction, which in our town is still okay. Uh, you’re gonna spend X amount of dollars on that. But yeah, you can get a heat pump system. It’s gonna cost you $5,000 more, but you get a $20,000 rebate, or you get 0 for the gas.

00:29:06:16 – 00:29:28:21
Kyle Cabral
So as a developer, it starts becoming interesting in terms of how you can make money just on the rebate incentives side of things. So when people are modeling out like, uh, like community developments at 10,000, 20,000, over 50 buildings, gets, uh, gets pretty profitable, uh, in trying to, trying to shave off some dollars. But again, being educated about the process is huge.

00:29:28:23 – 00:29:45:02
Vernon Miles
Are they trying to- I mean, the cost of electricity is so much higher, so do, do people look at that going from gas or oil – they do – where they’re like, “If I switch everything over to ele- electric-” – Yeah – “what if gas is cheaper or oil’s cheaper than the electric is down the road?” Right? Like – yeah. – So – is that where like the solar comes in?

00:29:45:08 – 00:30:04:09
Kyle Cabral
E- exactly. So they- this is a big talking point. Um, and you can look at all these discussions. Uh, it’s called EAC. Um, so long story short, that is a question. Uh, so back to what’s your value of comfort, right? If you don’t have AC in a house right now. Well, all right, what’s that value to you? Or let’s say you have a 20-year-old system.

00:30:04:09 – 00:30:21:00
Kyle Cabral
Are you in it for a free system? Are you low income? Are you Newbi- New Bedford? Are you getting it for free or not? Um, but to your particular point, even for a market rate customer, like, hey, just like tit for tat, like am I spending more money? The answer’s yes, uh, going from gas to electric. The answer’s a lot of times no from oil to electric,

00:30:21:01 – 00:30:40:16
Kyle Cabral
and they also have now a heat pump seasonal rate. So to help a, like basically eliminate that, uh, barrier concern, I forgot the months, but it’s a 6 to 8-month period that your, the electrical usage rate goes down 60%. – Oh, wow. – So your cost of electricity, literally, as long as you have that heat pump rate code. A lot of people don’t know that easy.

00:30:40:21 – 00:30:56:03
Kyle Cabral
We’re required when we install systems for any, any residents, we’re required for them to be onboard into that heat pump, uh, basically rate code, and then they s- uh, it gets sent to Eversource, and they adjust it. So that offsets that cost that you’re talking-

00:30:56:04 – 00:30:57:17
Craig Snell
Interesting. Never knew that.

00:30:57:19 – 00:31:10:01
Vernon Miles
That’s why I haven’t honestly looked into this ’cause I’m like, “You know what? I’ll just flip my hairs. I got oil. I got propane at my house. I have a heat pump – yeah – and so another part of it I’m like, see where it goes.”

00:31:10:02 – 00:31:23:03
Kyle Cabral
Yeah. A lot of people think of the heat pumps and mini splits as what’s on the wall. I mean, you- But when- Again, this is for me being in the industry so long is like I forget sometimes that like almost know too much where it’s like I think it’s common knowledge – mm – and it’s not.

00:31:23:04 – 00:31:28:18
Craig Snell
I have the same- I- Exactly. Yeah. Like when I talk to people sometimes I’m like, “How do you not know this?” – Right. – Yeah.

00:31:28:20 – 00:31:35:13
Kyle Cabral
It’s like you can get a ducted heat pump system, right? Just like you would have a furnace, you have, uh, supplies in your, your ceilings. – Yeah. – You don’t see them. You can get them without those big like-

00:31:35:13 – 00:31:49:04
Craig Snell
Big heads in the wall – the ones like that you’d have in like you put in your basement or whatever. – Yeah, exactly. – But you can put it in- Like my mom’s house is not – don’t even have a spot – doesn’t have it. – Yeah. – Hers is like a unit that’s in the ceiling, but you can also do it into the duct work.

00:31:49:05 – 00:31:49:15
Kyle Cabral
Exactly.

00:31:49:16 – 00:31:54:09
Craig Snell
We were gonna do- You guys were gonna do that in my basement, but the- I just didn’t have enough room – right – so we ended up not doing it.

00:31:54:10 – 00:31:56:04
Vernon Miles
Now, do you guys do the solar panels as well?

00:31:56:05 – 00:32:06:19
Kyle Cabral
No. – As service? – So that’s, uh, that’s definitely, um, down the road, uh, thing. We, we, we b- that’s a big time growth thing down the road. We don’t need to get to that yet, but, um, but yeah, we don’t do that quite yet.

00:32:06:20 – 00:32:07:14
Vernon Miles
So you guys refer that out to a different company?

00:32:07:19 – 00:32:08:21
Kyle Cabral
Yeah, refer that out, yeah.

00:32:08:23 – 00:32:27:02
Craig Snell
Interesting. You know, I, the, I know this question isn’t really for you, but – yeah – just in general ’cause you know more about this stuff than I do. Are you seeing people still at the same rate putting solar on their houses, or has that slowed down? Um- ‘Cause I feel like it was a huge push from an outside view. – Mm-hmm. – Right? I feel like it was a massive push in the beginning,

00:32:27:02 – 00:32:34:18
Craig Snell
and then people had got ’em, and then it kinda died off, where I – mm – I would say from an outside, I don’t feel like as many people are doing it anymore.

00:32:34:19 – 00:32:36:07
Kyle Cabral
Yeah, that definitely slowed down.

00:32:36:09 – 00:32:37:05
Craig Snell
Why do you think that?

00:32:37:06 – 00:33:00:14
Kyle Cabral
I would think, uh, most likely the, the, I mean, the rates, to be honest with you. Rebates and- Um, and the rebate, there aren’t really incentives for rebates right now on, on any solar installs and things like that, uh, anything like that, um, that, that I know of, right? That’s not my kind of – yeah – my avenue that I, I, I tran- um, I travel down very often, but I really think it’s more of like just the financing, um, and the, and the rates getting, uh, jacked up.

00:33:00:14 – 00:33:22:24
Kyle Cabral
But I do hear mur- like murmurings. Now, on the 2020- So Mass Save has 3-year plans, so right now we’re in the, what was it? 25 to 27 plan, then a 28 to 30 plan that’s being written right now. That’s definitely more western Massachusetts oil still dominant, but after that, I s- when- I would suspect ’31 to ’33, uh, 3, um, I would be shocked if they didn’t have, uh, solar incentives.

00:33:23:00 – 00:33:27:22
Kyle Cabral
Like where, again, based on income, you throw this thing on your roof for no cost or a low cost.

00:33:27:24 – 00:33:31:13
Vernon Miles
Especially with all the heat pumps you guys are installing – exactly – these, these years too leading up to it.

00:33:31:14 – 00:33:34:16
Kyle Cabral
Yeah, there’s a method to madness. Just offsets that cost. Yeah.

00:33:34:18 – 00:33:39:17
Craig Snell
Yeah, I would see. I mean, it all makes sense if you have solar. – Yeah. – Or you can put it on. Not every property works for it, but.

00:33:39:18 – 00:33:41:00
Kyle Cabral
Yeah. And then, and then you-

00:33:41:01 – 00:33:43:16
Craig Snell
I gotta get those shingles, so you don’t, like, see ’em.

00:33:43:17 – 00:33:44:23
Kyle Cabral
I know. So ex- so expensive.

00:33:45:00 – 00:33:47:20
Craig Snell
Yeah. They just – that never really came to be a big thing, huh?

00:33:47:22 – 00:33:55:16
Kyle Cabral
No, it’s just, it’s too expensive. That’s what it- I think it’s 2, 2, 2X or two and a half X. Like the Tesla whatever ones. – Yeah. – Mm-hmm. So I believe that’s what it is.

00:33:55:16 – 00:33:58:02
Craig Snell
Yeah, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a house with-

00:33:58:04 – 00:33:59:04
Kyle Cabral
I’ve seen like 2 in downtown.

00:33:59:05 – 00:34:05:10
Vernon Miles
Maybe if you’re in like southern states where it’s sunny all the time, like I’m not gonna put those on my house for sun that’s there –

00:34:05:12 – 00:34:06:07
Kyle Cabral
Yeah, yeah.

00:34:06:09 – 00:34:09:21
Vernon Miles
4 months a year where it’s generating any electricity.

00:34:09:23 – 00:34:41:05
Kyle Cabral
It’s just wild, like, like Boston right now. Like, so you have- Going back to, like, um, building code. The ramifications of that, what’s happening. You have base code, um, you have stretch code, you have specialized code. Right now in Boston and the surrounding towns, um, you can’t actually put gas in, right? So there’s a lot too. It’s not like 2, it’s like 30, uh, where they won’t even allow you to do that, and you have to have solar panels on your roof. And it’s slowly bleeding down into kinda like the Brockton area. Slowly come down here.

00:34:41:05 – 00:34:55:23
Kyle Cabral
So if everyone’s base code originally, now we’re stretch code, so you need a HERS rater. Oh, wait, they’re really pushing you in the incentives. Oh, wait. Are you sure you don’t want a heat pump? But that’s already happened on the more northern, like, areas and cities in Boston, so it’s just a matter of fact.

00:34:55:23 – 00:35:01:17
Kyle Cabral
We’re seeing in real time, I’m shocked in 10, 20 years, it’s primarily gonna be heat pumps and all this crazy stuff with compliance to Passive House, all that stuff.

00:35:01:17 – 00:35:07:01
Craig Snell
And that’s not- That is not so much because it’s cost efficient, it’s just more of the carbon.

00:35:07:03 – 00:35:09:08
Kyle Cabral
Exactly. They wanna measure that.

00:35:09:09 – 00:35:22:12
Craig Snell
I was always kind of wondering why, like, they push it so much, and I’m like, I don’t, I don’t really get it. Like, it doesn’t seem cost efficient. I mean, it seems easier in certain situations to put one in, the carbon side makes a lot of sense of why they’re trying to do it.

00:35:22:12 – 00:35:53:06
Kyle Cabral
Yeah, I think it’s called NEBS. It’s, uh, N- Net Energy Benefits. I believe that’s what it is. Um, but they calculate- So how it works is, like, basically take a house, they score it. Hey, if it passes a best co- uh, best, um, benefit cost ratio, um, if it scores 1.0 or above, then it’s basically what we’re installing. And to the cost of the state and the return on that individual residence over X amount of time, will it benefit – based on this and that for us.

00:35:53:08 – 00:36:14:08
Kyle Cabral
So it used to be that in terms of just an efficiency standpoint. Now they put environmental things into it. Like, “Hey, if you do a heat pump, are you likely to get sick? Are you not likely to get sick?” So they’ve calculated even that. – Wow. – To an, its crazy extent. So even though it’s gonna be more expensive over time, like the lifetime of the thing, they’re giving value to like, “Hey, is society better with this?

00:36:14:08 – 00:36:23:21
Kyle Cabral
Is your family better with this?” It’s very interesting calculations. I, I’ve tried to get into it. It’s insane, but it’s, um- But yeah, that, that’s the kind of where their stance is on that.

00:36:23:23 – 00:36:26:21
Craig Snell
That’s crazy. Damn.

00:36:26:23 – 00:36:31:10
Vernon Miles
So literally everybody’s your client. That’s what I’m taking out of this – yeah – is everybody should be calling C2S.

00:36:31:10 – 00:36:33:22
Kyle Cabral
Our, our TAM is the entire state of Massachusetts, yeah.

00:36:34:00 – 00:36:48:14
Craig Snell
And commercial properties. Anything. – I see. – I always thought the Mass Save thing was residential. And I didn’t think you could use it on investment properties or- So you have investment properties, whether you live in them or not, you could do things.

00:36:48:16 – 00:36:50:13
Kyle Cabral
It’s better if you’re an investor.

00:36:50:15 – 00:36:51:12
Craig Snell
Yeah. Yeah, you did tell me that.

00:36:51:12 – 00:36:56:00
Kyle Cabral
There, there is 0 costs, like for installation, for example. If you’re a landlord-

00:36:56:02 – 00:36:57:15
Craig Snell
Mini splits too? Heat pumps?

00:36:57:17 – 00:37:19:07
Kyle Cabral
Um, the- So mini splits, depending on the oil situation – with that oil, what they have – a lot of times that’s at no cost. Uh, you think about these 3 tenements, 4 tenements, a lot of times 7 to 1,000 square feet. Um, you can literally get a full-blown system, um, for very low to no cost. Um, but insulation, air sealing, at least improving the envelope should be a absolute no-brainer.

00:37:19:08 – 00:37:28:01
Kyle Cabral
It’s free. Just do it as long as you have a utility bill. That’s it. It’s like it’s the number one thing I’d suggest. Um, so, but yeah.

00:37:28:03 – 00:37:45:08
Craig Snell
That’s awesome, man. Well, thank you for coming on. Winter is coming, so if you guys wanna save some money on your utility bills, give these guys a call. I’m very proud of you, man. It’s been awesome to watch you and Tony grow your company, and I think you guys are- It’s just beginning, so I’m looking forward to watching the ride for you guys.

00:37:45:10 – 00:37:47:11
Craig Snell
Uh, anything else you wanna say before we cut this off?

00:37:47:12 – 00:38:05:10
Kyle Cabral
No, I mean, and vice versa, I appreciate you guys. Uh, I’m sure you’re gonna beat me on the golf course next week or the week after, but, uh, it was a pleasure. I love seeing your growth as well. So, um, yeah, if you guys wanna call me, uh, 774-961-6810, C2S Energy. We’re always here to help, if we don’t know the answer right away, we’ll, we’ll find you the answer, so.

00:38:05:10 – 00:38:06:09
Craig Snell
Awesome, man.

00:38:06:09 – 00:38:07:03
Vernon Miles
Thank you. Thanks for coming on, man.

00:38:07:09 – 00:38:07:16
Kyle Cabral
See you guys.

00:38:07:16 – 00:38:08:02
Kyle Cabral
Thank you.